Why not a DV-format memory card / hard camcorders?

Andreas Hollmann wrote:
> Now, there are nice little handy camcorder with SD card, but
> All Manufacturer save instead of the quality
> DV-format video data as MPEG2 or MPEG - While this saves space,
> But unfortunately, the quality on the route.
>
> How can we cut something because when the camera during the
> Recording the first deterioration in quality with the same fitting? :-(

DV, synonymous to tape recorded in avi (12-13GB/Stunde), has no contemporary
More image quality, compared with HDV (mpeg-2 storage on tape) or
AVCHD (there are some problems with the cut - see the synonymous
advice on purchase
http://www.videotreffpunkt.com/thread.php?threadidq12).

These small DV cameras with memory card are s.Leute who just
times to move their loved ones want to scan, absorb the beach, etc.
Cut to the eh no or very little. BTW: With some
Cutting programs gehts so, and some may softrendern Programs synonymous.
Even an entry to read:
http://www.hennek-homepage.de/video/start.htm


Greetings, Norbert

---

Answer by Andreas Hollmann:

The question is rather why it is not in memory Cameras
decide whether the films in MPEG2 or. dv format. Why
is. dv always s.das medium "magnetic" linked? Or are there
any license / patent rights in the game?

Andreas

---

Answer by Andreas Hollmann:

Norbert Müller wrote:

> DV, synonymous to tape recorded in avi (12-13GB/Stunde), has no contemporary
> More image quality, compared with HDV (mpeg-2 storage on tape) or
> AVCHD (there are some problems with the cut - see the synonymous
> Advice on purchase

Why is the lossy storage in the MPEG2 format to approve
As compared to the cameras. Dv format inferior criticized for HDV
but accepted?

Andreas

---

Answer by Norbert_Müller

Andreas Hollmann wrote:
> Norbert Müller wrote:
>
>> DV, synonymous to tape recorded in avi (12-13GB/Stunde), has no
>> More contemporary image, compared with HDV (mpeg-2 storage
>> On tape) and AVCHD (there are some problems with the cut
>> - See synonymous advice on the purchase
>
> Why is the lossy storage in MPEG2 format
> Cheap as compared to the cameras. Dv format inferior
> Criticized, but accepted for HDV?

Because people already max. burn to a DVD and therefore have the
Data for it. MPEG-2 level. It can not hold so well
cut from the tape, such as avi, which is how the individual (Dry) Film
supplies. But the DV-avi anyway you must compress it to perform
can. Even if you have a media player directly as avi play
the quality is not better.

For HDV, this is to MPEG-2 agreement, because otherwise the amount of data too large
would, and you can have the same tapes and the same data rate (25mbps)
for use as IR. MPEG-2 is by no means "inferior", but hold only
compressed.

What did you actually do?

If you want a simple movie without much cutting - nimm DV, when you the
Quality is not so important. If you want good quality, s.Fotos
can reach, say HD (V). I am of a DV Camera SonyDCR-TRV60 (had
a good picture, it was not cheap, but hold only DV) on a SonyHDR-FX1000
changed - "only" 1440x1080 pixels, and the highly expected - still a
Picture better than most AVCHD cameras, especially in low-light - because
the sensor does not stop with overloaded pixels is synonymous to hochpixelige
Photos to be able to spend. And you can cut HDV synonymous better. And has
not artefacts of too high a compression.


Greetings, Norbert

---

Answer by Bernd Nomi:

Norbert Müller wrote:

>> Why is the lossy storage in MPEG2 format
>> Cheap as compared to the cameras. Dv format inferior
>> Criticized, but accepted for HDV?
>
> Because the people anyway max. burn to a DVD and therefore have the
> Data for it.

Hello
increasingly longer burn DVDs, but DO NOT save on hard disks.
If you want to edit, but for many it means much more than
only the grossest waste rauszuschneiden do you well to the film
already lossy compression. The mistakes are piling up and
later, then again, again with losses converted.

> For HDV, this is to MPEG-2 agreement, because otherwise the amount of data too large
> Would, and you can have the same tapes and the same data rate (25mbps)
> Use as DV. MPEG-2 is by no means "inferior", but hold only
> Compressed.

lossy compression! Comparison of the mean DV
"Inferior". Get Money for your statements?

---

Answer by Eckart Pluennecke:

Andreas Hollmann wrote:

> The question is rather why it is not in memory Cameras
> Decide whether the films in MPEG2 or. Dv format. Why
> Is. Dv always s.das medium "magnetic" linked? Or are there
> Any license / patent rights in the game?

Hello

I suspect already that it is a space problem with the memory card is. I
hab mir grad mal various shots of my DV Panasonic Camera
durchgeschaut, as per 30 seconds is about 100MB on it. This means then that
on an 8GB SD card for around 15 minutes is final. And on a
DV tape then it fits the 4-fold.

Grà ¼ sse
Ecki

---

Answer by Norbert_Müller

Bernd Nomi wrote:
> Norbert Müller wrote:
>
>>> Why is the lossy storage in MPEG2 format
>>> Cheap as compared to the cameras. Dv format inferior
>>> Criticized, but accepted for HDV?
>>
>> Because the people anyway max. burn to a DVD and therefore have the
>> Data for it.
>
> Hello
> NO more and more burn DVDs but store more on hard disks.

Hello!

That is synonymous, but I'm glad the original material still on
Cassette tape to have.

> If you want to edit, but for many it means much more
> Than the worst garbage rauszuschneiden do you well to the
> Film not already lossy compression. The error
> Accumulate and then later, again with losses
> Converted.

If you want to cut it sparingly, but just an MPEG-2 program, which
only the cut points nachrendert and the rest in peace can. TMPGEnc
DVD Author can do, and Womble, etc.

>> For HDV, this is to MPEG-2 agreement, because otherwise the amount of data
>> Would be too great, and you can have the same tapes and the same
>> Data rate (25mbps) for use as IR. MPEG-2 is not
>> "Inferior", but stop just compressed.
>
> Lossy compression! Comparison of the mean DV
> "Inferior". Get Money for your statements?

I like lossy synonymous better than inferior, but
lossy, it is only when it comes to cutting to return to avi
or completely re-rendered after the cut.


Regards, Norbert

---

Answer by Bernd Nomi:

Eckart Plünnecke wrote:
> Andreas Hollmann wrote:
>
>> The question is rather why it is not in memory Cameras
>> Decide whether the films in MPEG2 or. Dv format. Why
>> Is. Dv always s.das medium "magnetic" linked? Or are there
>> Any license / patent rights in the game?
>
> Hello
>
> I already suspect that there is a space problem with the memory card is. I
> Hab mir grad mal various shots of my DV Panasonic Camera
> Durchgeschaut, as per 30 seconds is about 100MB on it. This means then that
> On an 8GB SD card for around 15 minutes is final. And on a
> DV tape then it fits the 4-fold.

Exactly! And because you like big numbers with bragging, it just compresses
and can present laaaange seasons. ;)

---

Answer by Bernd Nomi:

Norbert Müller wrote:

>> more and more NOT burn DVDs but store more on hard disks.
>
> Time I synonymous, but I am the original material still on
> To have tape cartridge.

Yes, sure. As long as you have a device has to play. As mich mal
a precursor-(Hi8) camcorder "left", I had actually once again
so after buying the film again to be transferred. It was
Disk space, however, much more expensive. Of the burned DVDs (with
2 each Sicherungekopien) were the most after 1-2 years
broken. Therefore today: double backups on external hard disks.

>> If you want to edit, but for many it means much more
>> Than just the grossest rauszuschneiden garbage, do you well to the
>> Movie is not already lossy compression. The error
>> Accumulate and then later, again with losses
>> Converted.
>
> If you want to cut it sparingly, but just an MPEG-2 program, which
> Only the cut points nachrendert and the rest in peace can. TMPGEnc
> DVD Author can do, and Womble, etc.

If you really just want rausschneiden or reduce, the
Advantage of DV of course, not so great, that is correct. DV worth only
with intensive treatment in which the entire film is rendered re -
is. Previously it has in the use of SUPER-BETA or S-VHS instead
the "Normal format" as a "thumb rule" had: ".. so that one wins
a copy "- which should mean, visible deterioration in
Copy occur until a copy later. Films was previously cut
usually: 1-2x copy;)

> Lossy synonymous like me better as inferior, but
> Lossy, it is only when it comes to cutting to return to avi
> Is completely new or will be rendered after the cut.

Well, since we are but one opinion. If I s.Bearbeitung think
I always think s.mehrer steps and not only the
cut of "Aunt Erna, or advertising (or both)

---

Answer by Norbert_Müller

Bernd Nomi wrote:
> Norbert Müller wrote:
>
>>> more and more NOT burn DVDs, but more to save
>>> Hard disks.
>>
>> Time I synonymous, but I'm glad the original material still on
>> To have tape cartridge.
>
> Yes, already. As long as you have a device has to play. As mich mal
> A predecessor-(Hi8) camcorder "left", I had actually
> Times to buy one after the movies over again. It was
> Disk space, however, much more expensive. Of the burned DVDs (with
> 2 each Sicherungekopien) were the most after 1-2 years
> Broken. Therefore today: double backups on external
> Hard disks.

NASA is synonymous such problems, the data of Mars (?) Probe Voyager from
the 1970s are no longer readable. Since the only timely
Data migration, ie transfer to newer media. I use only
Verbatim DVDs that are already better, Billigabgebote from the electric market
strike synonymous with me even after 1-2 years.

>>> If you want to edit, but for many it means much more
>>> Than just the grossest rauszuschneiden garbage, do you well to the
>>> Movie is not already lossy compression. The error
>>> Accumulate and then later, again with losses
>>> Converted.
>>
>> If you want to cut it sparingly, but just an MPEG-2
>> Program that only the cut points and the rest nachrendert
>> In peace can. TMPGEnc DVD Author can do, and Womble, etc.
>
> If you really just want rausschneiden or reduce, the
> Advantage of DV of course, not so great, that is true. DV worth only
> For more intensive editing where the whole movie new
> Rendered. Previously it has in the use of SUPER-BETA or
> S-VHS instead of the "Normal format" as a "thumb rule" had:
> ".. So you get a copy" - which should mean, visible
> Deteriorations occur only when copying a copy later.
> Movies cut was mostly used to: 1-2x copy;)

My neighbor has this time made wonderful movies, but the copies
were already poor and are now almost no longer to look at this
Quality.

>> I like lossy synonymous better than inferior, but
>> Lossy, it is only when it comes to cutting to avi
>> Return to, or completely re-rendered after
>> Cut.
>
> Well, since we are but one opinion. If I s.Bearbeitung
> Think I always think s.mehrer steps and not only the
> Cut of "Aunt Erna, or advertising (or both)

But for these people, the DV-camera memory cards just made
to the "enthusiastic amateurs" is now unfortunately hardly taken into consideration
otherwise I would have hoped for a smaller camera than a SonyFX1000 can buy
with similar features. But there is no or hardly any. Now
"must" do 2kg drag through the area ;-)


Greetings, Norbert

---

Answer by wauzipeter:

Eckart Plünnecke wrote:
> Andreas Hollmann wrote:
>
>> The question is rather why it is in memory cameras nich =
t
>> Decide whether the films in MPEG2 or. Dv format. Was =
to
>> Is. Dv always s.das medium "magnetic" linked? Or are there
>> Any license / patent rights in the game?
>
> Hello
>
> I already suspect that there is a space problem with the memory card is .=
I
> Hab mir grad mal various shots of my DV Panasonic Camera
> Durchgeschaut, as per 30 seconds is about 100MB on it. This means then, since =
ss
> On an 8GB SD card for around 15 minutes is final. And on a
> DV tape then it fits the 4-fold.
>
> Grà ¼ sse
> Ecki

How you compute it? According to my description Pana HDC-SD300 rich
8GB fà ¼ r an hour in hà ¶ ¶ sung chster charge. My Testaufna =
hmen
¤ confirm this 100MB/min term.

For your information would be 200MB/min ¤ ren, which results in 8000: 200 = 40 =
min.

Peter

--
Surpassing of Rubens painted as drawn from hunger ...

---

Answer by Bernd Nomi:

Norbert Müller wrote:

>> Yes, sure. As long as you have a device has to play. As mich mal
>> A predecessor-(Hi8) camcorder "left", I had actually
>> Times to buy one after the movies over again. It was
>> Disk space, however, much more expensive. Of the burned DVDs (with
>> 2 each Sicherungekopien) were the most after 1-2 years
>> Broken. Therefore today: double backups on external
>> Hard disks.
>
> NASA has synonymous such problems, the data of Mars (?) Probe Voyager from
> The 1970s are no longer readable. D

:-D kicher ... yes, pressing times somebody punched a stack in his hand
and say this: These are the lottery numbers from next Wednesday ....


> But for these people, the DV-camera memory cards just made
> To the "enthusiastic amateurs" is now unfortunately hardly taken into consideration
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
For this I am well and unfortunately I too often forget that it is not soo
many of them there. The next step would be professional equipment but it is sufficient
neither the money nor the enthusiasm. My main hobby is something else,
Video is just the picture for the sound;) (ok, now synonymous was exaggerated)

---

Answer by Sven_Bötcher:

Bernd Nomi wrote:
> Andreas Hollmann wrote:
>> Now, there are nice little handy camcorder with SD cards, but all
>> Manufacturer of the store instead of high-quality DV format
>> Video data as MPEG2 or MPEG - While this saves space, but unfortunately
>> Remains on the quality of the trail.
>>
>> How can we cut something because when the camera during the
>> Recording the first deterioration in quality with the same fitting? :-(
>>
> Who has more right, will be carefully about what he Camcorders
> Buy and fingers of the mass of garbage can. Show yourself in times of NG
> Um, most of them, but then after the edit, save the
> Transferred films as synonymous MPG on the calculator. Completely insane what
> The quality is concerned but "so it saves space! A stupid argument can
> Man in the current memory prices, hard to find.

A terabyte for 62 euros. Therefore, I do not synonymous AVCHD into the house,
synonymous if I s.Wanken war.Ein HDV device with wirds tapes are
and well-ists.

Bye
Sven

---

Answer by Norbert_Müller

Sven Bötcher wrote:
> A terrabyte for 62 euros. Therefore, I do not synonymous AVCHD into the house,
> Synonymous times when I s.Wanken war.Ein HDV device with tapes wirds
> Are good and ists.

When you delete a hard drive in my computer cutting - was somewhere else
needed - I had overlooked that one because of the already Camera
File on it was played, which I have not saved as a Project
had only the transfer itself was on it - has been erased with - for
Fortunately I can restore from tape again.

Another advantage of the band! The examples I just 1x tapes, then they are
archived.


mfg, Norbert

---

Answer by Eckart Pluennecke:

wauzipeter wrote:

> Eckart Plünnecke wrote:
[...]
>>
>> I already suspect that there is a space problem with the memory card is.
>> Ich hab mir grad mal various shots of my DV Panasonic Camera
>> Durchgeschaut, as per 30 seconds is about 100MB on it. This means then that
>> On an 8GB SD card for around 15 minutes is final. And on a
>> DV tape then it fits the 4-fold.
>>
>> Grà ¼ sse
>> Ecki
>
> How you compute it? According to my description Pana HDC-SD300 rich
> 8GB fà ¼ r an hour in hà ¶ ¶ sung chster charge. My test shots
> ¤ confirm this 100MB/min term.
>
> For your information would be 200MB/min ¤ ren, which results in 8000: 200 = 40 min.

OK error on my part. I should stop using a calculator. :-(

But obviously you have an HD camcorder, with the AVCHD, so the
H.264/MPEG-4 codec works. Here I'm not huge statement about the
Quality tonnes. I have just a normal SD camcorder NV-GS180 with
Mini-DV cassette. That part is already a few years old, works
but still very good and I can do without material comfort s.PC
Qualtà ¤ tsverlust further. Only when I finish a DVD of it
doing so the film is converted to MPEG2, gibts by Compression
a quality tsverlust.
If memory card in the camera directly in MPEG2 is stored,
there ever since the first quality tsverluste by the Compression and
then post in the calculator, the video is only with
further quality to a DVD tsverlust process.

If you have material in HD 1920x1080 with only 100MB per minute, must be
because already heavily compressed. But as I said, I have no
Idea how good the codec is installed.

FÃ ¼ r cassette but I have still an advantage. I can very well
archived.

Ciao
Ecki

---

Answer by Arno Welzel:

Andreas Hollmann wrote:

> Now, there are nice little handy camcorder with SD cards, but all
> Manufacturer of the store instead of high-quality DV format
> Video data as MPEG2 or MPEG - While this saves space, but unfortunately
> The quality remains on the track.
>
> How can we cut something because when the camera during the
> Recording the first deterioration in quality with the same fitting? :-(

Because of low capacity SD cards barely sufficient to longer
Film clips in DV record.

MPEG2 quality are useful in about 1 MB / s. DV on the other hand, 3.125 MB / s.

60 minutes MPEG2 to get in about 3-4 GB under. The same in DV
but it needs about 11 GB - so large SD cards, there were until recently not
all too long just yet.


--
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

---

Answer by Andreas Hollmann:

Arno Welzel wrote:

> Because of the low capacity SD cards barely sufficient for a longer
> Movie clips in DV record.
>
> MPEG2 quality are useful in about 1 MB / s. DV on the other hand, 3.125 MB / s.
>
> 60 minutes to get MPEG2 in about 3-4 GB under. The same in DV
> But it needs about 11 GB - so large SD cards, there were until recently not
> Too long just yet.

We could have just the user the choice themselves can. At
There are many digital cameras, where pictures in
memory-intensive RAW format can store - or just as JPGs
different levels of compression.
Why can not distinguish between camcorders with DV and MPEG2 choose?

Andreas

---

Answer by Arno Welzel:

Andreas Hollmann wrote:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> Because of the low capacity SD cards barely sufficient for a longer
>> Movie clips in DV record.
>>
>> MPEG2 quality are useful in about 1 MB / s. DV on the other hand, 3.125 MB / s.
>>
>> 60 minutes to get MPEG2 in about 3-4 GB under. The same in DV
>> But it needs about 11 GB - so large SD cards, there were until recently not
>> Too long just yet.
>
> It would have been easy for the user the choice themselves can. At
> There are many digital cameras, where pictures in
> Memory-intensive RAW format can store - or just as JPGs
> Different levels of compression.
> Why can not distinguish between camcorders with DV and MPEG2 choose?

The above-mentioned digital cameras are usually expensive DSLR. At
Compact cameras RAW is the exception.


--
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

---

Answer by Volker Schauff:

Andreas Hollmann wrote:
> Now, there are nice little handy camcorder with SD cards, but all
> Manufacturer of the store instead of high-quality DV format
> Video data as MPEG2 or MPEG - While this saves space, but unfortunately
> The quality remains on the track.

Quality is still of the bit rate from, and times when I say
the unit is well designed, it should be either very high pre -
or in several steps adjustable.

> How can we cut something because when the camera during the
> Recording the first deterioration in quality with the same fitting? :-(

That does it for MiniDV but synonymous. Because loss is different.

The joke is: DV has 3.6MB / s. That makes 13GB per hour. No
Board game. How big SD cards are not yet available. Large SD cards are
expensive, must be changed more often, or built-in hard disks
are not full when they are full. A mini-DV tape is simply
mocking cheap and can be done by its small size well stocked with them
and exchanged at any time. So for a long time film unevenly
cheaper.

MPEG refers to quality-size ratio of synonymous yes
Difference images and motion vectors. DV is solely and exclusively
Images. Therefore, in the same quality of space later.
MPEG is worse to be cut because the editing program for
the B-and P-frames only times throughout the GOP hangeln needs. This costs
Time and computing power, but the result does not synonymous worse.

Ultimately, you can compare say:

Color:
MPEG2: 4:2:0 (at least in the consumer standard format Main Profile at
Main Level)
DV: 4:2:0 (for NTSC or 4:1:1)
Interim conclusion: tie, and both are worse than analog
YUV Component Betacam or á la Uncompressed YUV (4:2:2). Total
but tie
Endfazit: Unfortunately, the color sub-sampling in DV worse
realized as MPEG, which is why for small DV Farbtreppchen arise
, which is MPEG interestingly not exist. Therefore, MPEG
here even better.

Compression artifacts:
MPEG2: Depends of the bitrate from. From 8Mbit / s (1MB / s) should only
difficult to discover what actually garkeine more. Only
Brutalo shake-caliber camera falls out "should Blocking.
Below selbstrendens been synonymous normal movements depending on the MPEG encoder.
DV: No visible problems. Possibly. could all the smallest details
lost (Lossy quantization of the
Transformed frequency signal, thus high frequencies, ie
Picture-extremely sharp details, can suffer).
Conclusion: In quiet recordings is a high-bitrate MPEG due
difference image of its formation (it must be less lossy
quantize) even better than DV, with strong movements DV
significantly better. At bitrates I will not lay down, but would
say 8Mbit / s is a number which is synonymous with real-time MPEG2 encoding
(ie without extensive 2-Pass VBR with the prior analysis) with data measured
can.

Suitability for certain recording media:
MPEG: Even with Constant bitrate varies the bit rate is minimal. When
better variable bit rate (average bitrate is observed but in
Scenes on fast-and slow scenes below) varies
it is massive. Only hard-compatible tape to hold, but it goes
Finally, using D-VHS and Betacam IMX so synonymous MPEG2.
DV: constant bit rate, fully compatible with always the same
fast-running bands.
Conclusion: IR is band-optimized MPEG is very expensive to
constant bit rate and thus bandtauglich to keep, but just
VBR lot with space-saving.

Cutting ability s.PC:
MPEG: Performance loss in the editing program because of the difference image only
times laborious s.dem last I-frame must be reconstructed, easier
"Snip-and-from" average in which all previous and subsequent
Images are simply cut off is not possible (only sI-frames
or cut the GOP must be calculated, but there again
out to be that the GOP then synonymous DV

---

Answer by Andreas Hollmann:

Thank you for your detailed post.

My application would be to mount the video camera and s.Fahrradhelm
Shooting while driving.

The low weight of memory cards for cameras is of course
very pleasant. However, I would have imagery with much
Movement - where maybe IR would be better, but again more
Camera weight means :-(

The post-editing of the videos would appear on the simple
of crop sequences and dubbing with music only.
Well, a nice fade effect would, of course, synonymous beautiful.

Also do I need a lens with wide angle as much as possible - what
For most cameras, unfortunately, is not warranted. Compared with a
Wide intent, I am critical - the quality can be given to
expect what price?

Andreas

---

Answer by Arno Welzel:

Volker Schauff wrote:

> Andreas Hollmann wrote:
>> Now, there are nice little handy camcorder with SD cards, but all
>> Manufacturer of the store instead of high-quality DV format
>> Video data as MPEG2 or MPEG - While this saves space, but unfortunately
>> Remains on the quality of the trail.
>
> Quality is still of the bit rate from, and times when I say
> The unit is well designed, it should be either very high pre -
> Or in several steps adjustable.
>
>> How can we cut something because when the camera during the
>> Recording the first deterioration in quality with the same fitting? :-(
>
> The does but synonymous with MiniDV. Because loss is different.
>
> The joke is: DV has 3.6MB / s. That makes 13GB per hour. No
> Board game. How big SD cards are not yet available. Large SD cards are

Uh - Appeals ;-) Such cards have been around for a while - 16 GB SDHC
cost around 25-35 EUR. Even 32 GB models are now
offered if synonymous significantly more expensive (s.etwa $ 100).



--
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

---

Answer by Christian Stubbs:

Hello,

I hang my times purely thematically:

Is there any approaches that in future more DV tapes
exist, or is the technology s.Ende? When the CD's every few synonymous yes
NEN new years Aufguss (DVD, BluRay).

---

Answer by Bernd Nomi:

Christian Stubbs wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I hang my times purely thematically:
>
> Is there any approaches that in future more DV tapes
>, Or is the technology s.Ende? When the CD's every few synonymous yes
> Annual NEN new infusion (DVD, BluRay).

Hello
tapes are already due to the mechanics, which is very complex, if one
they do well will not survive. Money electronics costs only
in the development, then abkassiert because the cost
in larger series are ridiculously low. Precision is always
much effort, hard work, high costs.
The alternative: hard and big, fast semiconductor memory.
The latter are still expensive, but that should change soon (if
it wants the industry)

---

Answer by Volker Schauff:

Arno Welzel wrote:

>> The joke is: DV has 3.6MB / s. That makes 13GB per hour. No
>> Board game. How big SD cards are not yet available. Large SD cards are
>
> Uh - Appeals ;-) Such cards have been around for a while - 16 GB SDHC
> Cost around 25-35 EUR. Even 32 GB models are now
> Offered if synonymous significantly more expensive (s.etwa $ 100).

Is it me somehow later become synonymous aware, but I wanted to
but then not make the Ingrid ;-)

But it's drum ... 25-35 euro - because you can NEN full 5-Pack MiniDV
Tapes for sale. That means if the camera on holiday, etc. uses and
afterwards processed and sorted out, the circumstances under
fairly expensive.

The advantage of SD cards, is the complete freedom Mechanics
(in comparison to hard disks and tapes in particular) which
Extreme situations (condensation runiniert only the mechanics or the
happy times tape heads and tape, then the electronics, contactless
Record and therefore not colored morsel if it was rough
sent) of advantage.

--
Gruß ... Volker Schauff (thunderbird.elite @ t-online.de, ICQ 22823502)
www.cavalry-command.de - About Saber Rider and other 80s series
foren.cavalry-command.de - Forum for Spät70er - early-90s TV nostalgists
www.dark-realms.de - For fantasy / medieval times and all sorts of creative

---

Answer by Arno Welzel:

Christian Stubbs wrote:

> I hang my times purely thematically:
>
> Is there any approaches that in future more DV tapes
>, Or is the technology s.Ende? When the CD's every few synonymous yes
> Annual NEN new infusion (DVD, BluRay).

For DVD and BD is a fat synonymous industry behind them, on these
Media all year long produced new versions
Hollywood hits as HDTV and / or Extended Special Collectors Edition
Money can sell expensive.

In media, which only offered as a universal medium
be composed only lately that what most profit
brings - and this is with complex mechanical tape drives
simply not there. I have nothing against a robust
Removable media with less than 100 GB capacity for 10-20 EUR per piece.
But neither DVD-RAM still survived Monday and tape drives in this
Magnitude is only for professional applications
corresponding prices.

Therefore, you probably synonymous in the field of camcorders for ambionierten
Hobby-Filmer nothing better than getting more DV or Flash memory
With appropriate compression techniques. Who wants more, can be used for
Money synonymous corresponding systems with large hard disks or correct
Buy SSDs.


--
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

---

Answer by Bernd Nomi:

Arno Welzel wrote:

> Therefore, you probably synonymous in the field of camcorders for ambionierten
> Amateur filmmakers nothing better than getting more DV or Flash memory
> With appropriate compression techniques. Who wants more, can be used for
> Money synonymous corresponding systems with large hard disks or correct
> Buy SSDs.

Hello
For "more" you always had to pay more and as long as synonymous really real
longer warranted, the ambitious Hobbyaner the last ones to
would be opposed.
Maybe for fun times with a small list of equipment and prices

* 1 Color, North Mende state device, used with defects, 600DM
* 2 TV, Grundig new DM 2400
* 1 VCR, Philips VCR Long Play 2200DM
* 1 Computer Sinclair ZX81, 1 KB RAM, 1 MHZ, IMO just under 300 DM
* 2 Computer, Apple II clone (about 1500 DM)
* 2 piece 5.25 "floppy drive, 138kB, 495 DM per
* 1 Super Betamax - Sony recorder, 1600 DM (> 25 years old, run!)
* 1 S-VHS Recorder Panasonic ca, 2400 DM (> 20 years, Topfit)
* 2 S-VHS recorder Blaupunkt about 2100 DM (> 18 years, Topfit)
* Cheap external hard drive for Atari ST (Connor, 120 MB) 1380 DM
* Revox A700 tape machine with some modifications 4000.-DM
..
..
1. VideoCorder, SonyHandycam 55 price?
2. VideoCorder, SonyHi8, price?
3. Video Camcorder, Mini DV, DC110 E, 1600 DM

Mannoroth man if that was such a listing ... the synthesizer is not
counting ...
Anyone around 1600Euro into a modern camcorder SonyHDTV
invested, although certainly not with the professionals (which is so synonymous
evolve) can catch up, but certainly for many years
technology available, you first must exploit.

---

Answer by Wolfgang Hauser:

Arno Welzel wrote:

> Volker Schauff wrote:
>> The joke is: DV has 3.6MB / s. That makes 13GB per hour. No
>> Board game. How big SD cards are not yet available. Large =
SD cards are
>
> Uh - Appeals ;-) Such cards have been around for a while - 16 GB =
SDHC
> cost around 25-35 EUR. Even 32 GB models are now
> offered if synonymous significantly more expensive (s.etwa $ 100).

Unfortunately, 32 GB already at the maximum SDHC. The standards
were present at the drilling of SD ärgerlicherweise rather shortsighted.

---

Answer by Bernd Nomi:

Volker Schauff wrote:
> ... No game board.

Chicken

see: http://www.redensarten-index.de/liste/2004/5956.php

mfg. Trustees receiving care and types of German speech
(duck, run away)

---

Answer by Sven_Bötcher:

Norbert Müller wrote:
> Sven Bötcher wrote:
>> A terrabyte for 62 euros. Therefore, I do not synonymous AVCHD into the house,
>> Synonymous times when I s.Wanken war.Ein HDV device with tapes wirds
>> Are good and ists.
>
> When you delete a hard drive in my computer cutting - was somewhere else
> Used - I had overlooked that one because of the Camera
> File already has played out was that I have not as Project
> Had saved, but the transfer itself was on it - has been with
> Deleted - fortunately, I can restore from tape again.
>
> Another advantage of the band! The examples I tapes only 1x, then
> They archviert.

You can of course synonymous SD cards archvieren without deleting them, just
such as tapes or the data is raw and unprocessed in a
Extra hard drive archvieren.

Bye
Sven

---

Answer by Sven_Bötcher:

Wolfgang Hauser wrote:
> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> Volker Schauff wrote:
>>> The joke is: DV has 3.6MB / s. That makes 13GB per hour. No
>>> Board game. How big SD cards are not yet available. Large SD cards are
>> Uh - Appeals ;-) Such cards have been around for a while - 16 GB SDHC
>> Cost around 25-35 EUR. Even 32 GB models are now
>> Offered if synonymous significantly more expensive (s.etwa $ 100).
>
> Unfortunately, 32 GB already at the maximum SDHC. The standards
> Were the boring of SD ärgerlicherweise rather shortsighted.

SDXC will go up to 2 TB, but only with exFAT. Penguins remain
just turned off.

Bye
Sven

---

Answer by Norbert_Müller

Sven Bötcher wrote:
> You can of course synonymous SD cards archvieren without deleting them,
> Just like tapes or the data raw and unprocessed in a
> Extra-hard drive archvieren.

The hold, however, likely much less than many tapes - are
full of electronic components, capacitors and their age - and also
they are much more expensive.


Greetings, Norbert

---

Answer by Sven_Bötcher:

Bernd Nomi wrote:
> Christian Stubbs wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I hang my times purely thematically:
>>
>> Is there any approaches that in future more DV tapes
>> There, or is the technology s.Ende? When the CD's every few synonymous yes
>> Annual NEN new infusion (DVD, BluRay).
>
> Hello
> tapes have been because of the mechanics, which is very complex, if one
> They do well will not survive.

The narrative D8 times my analog cassette (gefühltermassen Stone Age),
to know and not even they will not even regularly
front-and back spooled.

Bye
Sven

---

Answer by Bernd Nomi:

Norbert Müller wrote:
> Sven Bötcher wrote:
>> You can of course synonymous SD cards archvieren without deleting them,
>> Just like tapes or the data is raw and unprocessed in a
>> Extra-hard drive archvieren.
>
> The holding, however, likely much less than many tapes - are
> Full of electronic components, capacitors and their age

LOL it is again, the capacitors argument. " It is now before
all of Abzocke repair services used. Among those running even in
Devices from capacitors, which do not have. I have here some
Old radios, of which 1950 and 1951. You can assume that the
there assembled capacitors, particularly the "evil" of much
quality are simpler than today's. And there is hardly one that
sealed with tar or plastic with some funny stuff
sheathed the capacitors would not completely cracked. Still running
the equipment is still synonymous. Whether your films are so old?

- And also
> They are much more expensive.

You can expect? Then do the times. A high-quality
Terrabyte plate you get today for about 90 euros and if for
DV of about 12GB per hour could be out about 80 60-minute DV
Cartridges to save it. Even if you put the data in addition to
a 2nd Record store would be still cheaper than 80 cassettes
to buy. These would then be that there is probably longer Calculator
the hard out there, such as mechanical drives, the tapes
can play.
I save the waste of liberated, DV important than originals
DV-AVI, so the maximum possible quality on the 2 drives then
then separated from the calculator well kept. With slightly
again set to be shooting, but I make no such circus
not worthwhile. The tapes do I in a thick-walled steel tape to
as long as I am still a player had. Actually, the tapes
collect superfluous, I have ever experienced, which I
Used Camera had to buy because my olling Hi8 someday strike
precisely and shortly after I noticed that a large part of the
self-DVDs had been adopted. tapes are mainly very
alterungsempfindlich. If you do not always umspult times, there
Copy these effects. The magnetization is synonymous according to duration,
with DV tapes is even more serious consequences than for analog
Material. Finally stuck some tapes synonymous after long storage
(if you're unlucky) In any case, they must at low moisture
(not quite dry) and at about 15-20 degrees stored.
Hard disks, there are clearly more tolerant - but it makes for a synonymous
Blow more broken if a runterwirft:) Therefore, important data
Save at least 2 times

---

Answer by Bernd Nomi:

Sven Bötcher wrote:

>> tapes are due to the mechanics, which is very complex, if one
>> They do well will not survive.
>
> The narrative D8 times my analog cassette (gefühltermassen Stone Age),
> Who know this is not at all and they will not even regularly
> Front-and back spooled.

Oops, again, I made the mistake and forget this
constantly balance time is gold (
Humans, of course I have with "mechanics", too expensive and "not
survive "is not the tapes itself. It is about the
Mechanics of the drives, which should surely be clear. Collect your times
ollen tapes, someday you will discard it because you do not
Player or you're more forced a lot of money for a stone-old
Replacement equipment to buy.

---

Answer by Gödeke_Michels:

Bernd Nomi wrote:

>> The holding, however, likely much less than many tapes - are
>> Full of electronic components, capacitors and their age
>
> LOL, it is again, the capacitors argument. " It is now before
> All of Abzocke repair services used

It may be that in this case there are loopholes. But the Cs
drying is a Tasache. I have a few years thereby
large part of my time spent, parts to repair it.

--
MiniMAC C2D - Nice little box ...

---

Answer by Sven_Bötcher:

Bernd Nomi wrote:
> Sven Bötcher wrote:
>
>>> tapes are due to the mechanics, which is very complex, if
>>> They do well will not survive.
>>
>> The narrative D8 times my analog cassette (gefühltermassen
>> Stone Age), who know this is not and they will not even
>> A regular pre-spooled and back.
>
> Oops, again, I made the mistake and forget this
> Constantly balance time is gold (
> Humans, of course I have with "mechanics", too expensive and "not
> Survive "is not the tapes itself. It is about the
> Mechanics of the drives, which should surely be clear.

99 Euro for an entry-level camcorder with the tape drive
miniDV format. Camcorder for SD cards are not usually synonymous cheaper
when a real lens with auto focus and optical zoom are.

Bye
Sven

---

Answer by Arno Welzel:

Gödeke Michels wrote:

> Bernd Nomi wrote:
>
>>> The holding, however, likely much less than many tapes - are
>>> Full of electronic components, capacitors and their age
>> LOL, it is again, the capacitors argument. " It is now before
>> All of Abzocke repair services used
>
> It may be that in this case there are loopholes. But the Cs
> Is a dry Tasache. I have a few years thereby
> Big part of my time spent, parts to repair it.

You can certainly show an SD Card, the electrolytic capacitors with liquid
Electrolyte contains - would be new to me that in these tiny capacitors
Models exist at all synonymous and the most current motherboards
have solid capacitors, this problem does not know.


--
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

---

Answer by Arno Welzel:

Wolfgang Hauser wrote:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> Volker Schauff wrote:
>>> The joke is: DV has 3.6MB / s. That makes 13GB per hour. No
>>> Board game. How big SD cards are not yet available. Large SD cards are
>> Uh - Appeals ;-) Such cards have been around for a while - 16 GB SDHC
>> Cost around 25-35 EUR. Even 32 GB models are now
>> Offered if synonymous significantly more expensive (s.etwa $ 100).
>
> Unfortunately, 32 GB already at the maximum SDHC. The standards
> Were the boring of SD ärgerlicherweise rather shortsighted.

Probably realistic. How can data volumes in the range of several
100 GB or even TB through the interface of SD card would be useful in
tolerable amount of time? Even good class 6-card create hardly
more than 30 MB / s when reading (and they do not have the time - 6 MB / s would
according to standard enough) - for a card with 128 GB you would need
well over an hour to complete reading.




--
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

---

Answer by Bernd Nomi:

Gödeke Michels wrote:
> Bernd Nomi wrote:
>
>>> The holding, however, likely much less than many tapes - are
>>> Full of electronic components, capacitors and their age
>>
>> LOL, it is again, the capacitors argument. " It is now before
>> All of Abzocke repair services used
>
> It may be that in this case there are loopholes. But the Cs
> Is a dry Tasache. I have a few years thereby
> Big part of my time spent, parts to repair it.

Hello
I do not dispute that this effect, there is only me
Senkel the argument because this is usually only nachgeplappert. I
synonymous already defective capacitors even be exchanged, but the frequency
such cases is not proportionate to the constant warnings
before. If you work in the service, you have another point of view,
You then get the equipment on the table with a few exceptions, ie
almost 100% of defects, which is a special case, not the norm.
(I knew times a woman, in a special department of a
Children's Hospital worked. There was about abnormalities and they had
later real problems with the Trying their partner because they
Probability of abnormalities such assessment, that they
Healthy births than the exception saw. Ok, crass example, but so
of such stories. I have been several decades of very
a lot of electronics (space filling) surrounded and had such a defect only
exactly 2x. Maybe synonymous with happiness:)

---

Answer by Norbert Müller

Bernd Nomi wrote:
> Norbert Müller wrote:
>> Sven Bötcher wrote:
>>> You can of course synonymous SD cards archvieren without deleting them,
>>> Just like tapes or the data raw and unprocessed in a
>>> Extra-hard drive archvieren.
>>
>> The holding, however, likely much less than many tapes --
>> Are so full of electronic components, capacitors and their age
>
> LOL, it is again, the capacitors argument. "

My last high-quality Mobo of Fujitsu-Siemens was after 4 years
broken. Reason: Kaputtgegangene capacitors.

Enjoy saving with SD cards!


mfg, Norbert

---

Answer by Steffen Huber:

Arno Welzel wrote:
> Wolfgang Hauser wrote:
>
>> Arno Welzel wrote:
>>
>>> Volker Schauff wrote:
>>>> The joke is: DV has 3.6MB / s. That makes 13GB per hour. No
>>>> Board game. How big SD cards are not yet available. Large SD cards
>>>> Are
>>> Uh - Appeals ;-) Such cards have been around for a while - 16 GB
>>> SDHC cost approximately 25-35 EUR. Even 32 GB models are now
>>> Offered if synonymous significantly more expensive (s.etwa $ 100).
>>
>> Unfortunately, 32 GB already at the maximum SDHC. The standards
>> Were at the drill of SD ärgerlicherweise rather shortsighted.
>
> Well more realistic. How can data volumes in the range of several
> 100 GB or even TB through the interface of SD card would be useful in
> More bearable over time?

Piece by piece.

> Even good class 6-card create hardly
> More than 30 MB / s when reading (and they do not have the time - 6 MB / s would
> By default be enough) - for a card with 128 GB you would need
> Much more than an hour to complete reading.

First, if I remember rightly, 30 MB / s is currently a
Limit the flash chips, not the interface. So far, the
Dinger become faster and faster, just as they are cheaper and
have become larger.

On the other - many of the 1TB disks to create real-Class
synonymous not much more. Yet this is no problem, because you
just rarely reads or Dingens completely describes.

You sure you remember synonymous nor s.die first CD burner?
650 MB burn in 74 minutes ...

Steffen

--
Steffen Huber
hubersn Software - http://www.hubersn-software.com/

---

Answer by Bernd Nomi:

Norbert Müller wrote:
> Bernd Nomi wrote:
>> Norbert Müller wrote:
>>> Sven Bötcher wrote:
>>>> You can of course synonymous SD cards archvieren without deleting them,
>>>> Just like tapes or the data raw and unprocessed in a
>>>> Extra-hard drive archvieren.
>>>
>>> The holding, however, likely much less than many tapes --
>>> Are so full of electronic components, capacitors and their age
>>
>> LOL, it is again, the capacitors argument. "
>
> My last high-quality Mobo of Fujitsu-Siemens was after 4 years
> Broken. Reason: Kaputtgegangene capacitors.

were probably due to the thighs racy Taiwanesinnen
hand;) (see Havana, Cuba)

---

Answer by Norbert Müller

Bernd Nomi wrote:
> Norbert Müller wrote:
>> Bernd Nomi wrote:
>>> Norbert Müller wrote:
>>>> Sven Bötcher wrote:
>>>>> You can of course synonymous SD cards archvieren without deleting them,
>>>>> Tapes or just like the raw and unprocessed data on a
>>>>> Extra hard drive archvieren.
>>>>
>>>> The holding, however, likely much less than many tapes --
>>>> Are so full of electronic components, capacitors and their age
>>>
>>> LOL, it is again, the capacitors argument. "
>>
>> My last high-quality Mobo of Fujitsu-Siemens was after 4 years
>> Broken. Reason: Kaputtgegangene capacitors.
>
> Which was probably due to thighs racy Taiwanesinnen
> Hand;) (see Havana, Cuba)

"Handmade" was still a few years ago, an award for excellent
and durable products. :)


Greetings, Norbert

---

Answer by Arno Welzel:

Norbert Müller wrote:

> Bernd Nomi wrote:
>> Norbert Müller wrote:
>>> Sven Bötcher wrote:
>>>> You can of course synonymous SD cards archvieren without deleting them,
>>>> Just like tapes or the data raw and unprocessed in a
>>>> Extra-hard drive archvieren.
>>> The holding, however, likely much less than many tapes --
>>> Are so full of electronic components, capacitors and their age
>> LOL, it is again, the capacitors argument. "
>
> My last high-quality Mobo of Fujitsu-Siemens was after 4 years
> Broken. Reason: Kaputtgegangene capacitors.

Yes, some time was a real problem and was especially electrolytic capacitors, which
were used for AVR. Even so some PC power supplies
s.solchen defects died.

> Have fun while saving with SD cards!

Where exactly are the SD card * * capacitors installed?

See eg


Yes - because it is synonymous capacitors. But no, their dielectric
"dry" and certainly can not, due to high flows and
the resulting warming within a few years extremely old.

I have an 8-MB of Panasonic SD Card from the early days, when
the medium was just introduced, the roughly estimated about 7 years old
and is still working correctly.


--
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

---

Answer by Norbert Müller

Arno Welzel wrote:
> I have an 8-MB of Panasonic SD Card from the early days,
> Just as the medium was introduced, the roughly estimated about 7
> Years old and still works correctly.

My grandson wants his childhood films in 30 years, so as my son
Now my old Super-8 films!

Greetings, Norbert

---

Answer by Arno Welzel:

Steffen Huber wrote:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Wolfgang Hauser wrote:
>>
>>> Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Volker Schauff wrote:
>>>>> The joke is: DV has 3.6MB / s. That makes 13GB per hour. No
>>>>> Paperboard game. How big SD cards are not yet available. Large SD cards
>>>>> Are
>>>> Uh - Appeals ;-) Such cards have been around for a while - 16 GB
>>>> SDHC cost approximately 25-35 EUR. Even 32 GB models are now
>>>> Offered if synonymous significantly more expensive (s.etwa $ 100).
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, 32 GB already at the maximum SDHC. The standards
>>> Were at the drill of SD ärgerlicherweise rather shortsighted.
>>
>> Well-being rather realistic. How can data volumes in the range of
>> More 100 GB or even TB through the interface of SD card
>> Would be useful in more bearable over time?
>
> Piece by piece.
>
>> Even good class 6-card create little more than 30 MB / s when reading
>> (And they do not have the time - 6 MB / s according to standard would be sufficient)
>> - For a card with 128 GB you would need much more than an hour to
>> Read full.
>
> First, if I remember rightly, 30 MB / s is currently a
> Limit the flash chips, not the interface. So far, the
> Things have become ever faster, just as they are cheaper and
> Become larger.

Class 6, with 6 MB / s specified. USB 2.0 - the currently preferred
Interface for SD card readers - is with a maximum of 50 MB / s
ideal conditions specified.

Long term this will change, no question - SDXC is already
specified.

> On the other - many of the 1TB disks to create real-Class
> Synonymous not much more. Yet this is no problem, because you
> Just rarely reads or Dingens completely describes.

But what on SD cards tend not to apply - or wants one
largely uncompressed video recording, on a memory card
for example, 100 GB, for example not fully read?

The typical application area of SD cards are not stationary
"Data tombs", but mobile devices.

> You sure you remember synonymous nor s.die first CD burner?
> 650 MB in 74 minutes burn ...

Yes, absolutely.


--
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

---

Answer by Arno Welzel:

Norbert Müller wrote:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
>> I have an 8-MB of Panasonic SD Card from the early days,
>> Just as the medium was introduced, the roughly estimated about 7
>> Years old and still works correctly.
>
> My grandson wants his childhood films in 30 years, so as my son
> Now my old Super-8 films!

Betimes important recordings in current media umzukopieren, no
bad idea. Even if the media are preserved - the players
are not necessarily.


--
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

---

Answer by Heiko Nocon:

Arno Welzel wrote:

> You can certainly show an SD Card, the electrolytic capacitors with liquid
> Electrolyte contains - would be new to me that in these tiny capacitors
> Designs ever exist

Each SD card includes at least one course Elko (for full-sized
SDS's are typically even two) and although of course with "liquid"
Electrolytes (in reality he is more gel-like). There are
Tantalelkos particularly in small SMD types installed.

See Picture above right

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantal-Elektrolytkondensator

> synonymous and the most current motherboards
> have solid capacitors, this problem does not know.

Three nonsense. Each of today's PC Mobo contains abundant throughout
ordinary electrolytic capacitors (tantalum, ie not even). One must be totally blind or
yet never a calculator aufgeschraubt have to make them NOT to be seen
have.

You have no idea of reality, electronics, right?

---

Answer by Arno Welzel:

Nocon Heiko wrote:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> You can certainly show an SD Card, the electrolytic capacitors with liquid
>> Electrolyte contains - would be new to me that in these tiny capacitors
>> Designs ever exist
>
> Each SD card includes at least one course Elko (for full-sized
> SDS's are typically even two) and although of course with "liquid"
> Electrolytes (in reality he is more gel-like). There are
> Tantalelkos particularly in small SMD types installed.
>
> See the top right corner of Picture
>
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantal-Elektrolytkondensator

Ok, I correct myself - "Elko" is obviously not limited to designs
with liquid Elektrolythen applicable. But such designs - with
liquid or gel Elektrolythen - in SMD construction are common,
would be to me.

>> And synonymous most current motherboards
>> Have solid capacitors, this problem does not know.
>
> Three nonsense. Each of today's PC Mobo contains abundant throughout
> Ordinary electrolytic capacitors (tantalum, ie not even). One must be totally blind or
> Never use a calculator or aufgeschraubt have to make them NOT to be seen
> Have.
>
> You have in reality no idea of electronics, right?

False advised. You can indeed look at my homepage scout:


And yes - I have been synonymous many motherboards in the hand had
and yes, there were many newer items synonymous with solid capacitors
here.


--
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

---

Answer by Wolfgang Hauser:

Arno Welzel wrote:

> Wolfgang Hauser wrote:
>
>> Arno Welzel wrote:
>>
>>> Volker Schauff wrote:
>>>> The joke is: DV has 3.6MB / s. That makes 13GB per hour. No
>>>> Board game. How big SD cards are not yet available. Large =
SD cards are
>>> Uh - Appeals ;-) Such cards have been around for a while - 16 GB =
SDHC
>>> Cost around 25-35 EUR. Even 32 GB models are now
>>> Offered if synonymous significantly more expensive (s.etwa $ 100).
>>
>> Unfortunately, 32 GB already at the maximum SDHC. The standards
>> Were at the drill of SD ärgerlicherweise rather shortsighted.
>
> Well more realistic. How can data volumes in the range of several
> 100 GB or even TB through the interface of SD card would be useful in
> more bearable over time? Even good class 6-card create =
hardly
> more than 30 MB / s when reading (and they do not have the time - 6 MB / s =
would
> by default be enough) - for a card with 128 GB you would need
> much more than an hour to complete reading.

For material in DV - the default would be a transfer in 10x speed. "
DV tapes, however, only with "1x" on plays.

For modern compact format, the speed advantage
much larger.

The alleged problem is nothing.


You should be synonymous times beyond the "video" look beyond --
Flash cards are significantly more universal storage medium as
DV cassettes, which are used in cameras, MP3 players and
Netbook uses.
The biggest annoyance is not so much the =
Capacity Limit
itself, but after a short time aufgebohrte successors and
the resulting compatibility issues. SDXC is already
in the starting blocks, these cards are SDHC devices as =
few
run as SDHC cards in SD devices today - and many devices, =
especially
Card readers and mounting slots in notebooks, for example, you can see the
supported outside of standard irrelevant.

---

Answer by Christian Stubbs:

Steffen Huber writes:

> First, if I remember rightly, 30 MB / s is currently a
> Limit the flash chips, not the interface. So far, the
> Things have become ever faster, just as they are cheaper and
> Become larger.

30MB / s fits exactly synonymous, but over the real limit of USB 2.0. And the
Most card readers are likely to be connected via USB. (Speculation)

> On the other - many of the 1TB disks to create real-Class
> Synonymous not much more. Yet this is no problem, because you
> Just rarely reads or Dingens completely describes.

The 1TBPlatten rather go in the direction of 100MB / s

---

Answer by Arno Welzel:

Wolfgang Hauser wrote:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> Wolfgang Hauser wrote:
>>
>>> Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Volker Schauff wrote:
>>>>> The joke is: DV has 3.6MB / s. That makes 13GB per hour. No
>>>>> Paperboard game. How big SD cards are not yet available. Large SD cards are
>>>> Uh - Appeals ;-) Such cards have been around for a while - 16 GB SDHC
>>>> Cost around 25-35 EUR. Even 32 GB models are now
>>>> Offered if synonymous significantly more expensive (s.etwa $ 100).
>>> Unfortunately, 32 GB already at the maximum SDHC. The standards
>>> Were at the drill of SD ärgerlicherweise rather shortsighted.
>> Well-being rather realistic. How can data volumes in the range of several
>> 100 GB or even TB through the interface of SD card would be useful in
>> More bearable over time? Even good class 6-card create hardly
>> More than 30 MB / s when reading (and they do not have the time - 6 MB / s would
>> By default be enough) - for a card with 128 GB you would need
>> Well over an hour to complete reading.
>
> When in DV material - standard would be a transfer in 10x speed. "
> DV cassette, however, only with "1x" on plays.
>
> In the modern compact format, the speed advantage
> Could be much higher.
>
> The alleged problem is nothing.

A DV tape is not synonymous has 128 GB or more. If one of 90
Minutes in normal speed (3.25 MB / s) above, are approximately 17
GB, meinentwegen let it be 20 GB. There is "10x" in fact a
clear profit of 9 minutes instead of just before 90th

If however, a SDXC card more than 10x s.Kapazität offers --
eg 256 GB - take the copying of the material even at 10x higher
Speed is still well over an hour. Carry
storage medium is not a yes, for example in video cameras instead of 1.5 hours
after 15 or 20 hours long shots, but to ensure
uses usually synonymous opportunities for higher resolutions, which
the capacity gain in relation to maturity relativised again.

> You should be synonymous times beyond the "video" look beyond --
> Flash cards are significantly more universal storage medium as
> DV cassettes, which are used in cameras, MP3 players and
> Netbook uses.

Correct. And since the speed is much more of a problem. If
someone "just" 50 GB of data transferred, it must be quite a bit of
Bring patience.

> The biggest annoyance is not so much the capacity limit
> Itself, but after a short time aufgebohrte successors and
> The resulting compatibility issues. SDXC is already
> In the starting blocks, these cards are SDHC devices just
> Run as SDHC cards in SD devices today - and many devices, especially
> Card readers and mounting slots in notebooks, for example, you can see the
> Standard of externally supported not.

SD was established in 2001. SDHC was 2006 - five years later and
SDXC is 2009 just announced and will probably not before 2010
significant spread. The call you "short time" in
IT field? Reminder: In the same period, there have been Windows 2000,
Windows XP and Windows Vista and Windows 7 will probably still be synonymous
final version come before SDXC as SDHC as usual today.

There were also some manufacturers firmware updates to devices, such as
Digital, SDHC-compatible to make - as experienced with a Casio
Exilim S70 compact camera, which was originally only SD and not even
particularly expensive.

In addition, you can still synonymous, even 3 years after the introduction of SDHC
for large vendors are still easy to buy SD cards.


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Answer by Heiko Nocon:

Arno Welzel wrote:

> There is "10x" in fact a
> clear profit of 9 minutes instead of just before 90th

To what extent is this a "profit"? It is not so that one 90 minutes
long and would have to sit next to any crank rotate or something.

You start the capture and then just make something else.

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Answer by Arno Welzel:

Nocon Heiko wrote:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> There is "10x" in fact a
>> Clear profit of 9 minutes instead of just before 90th
>
> To what extent is this a "profit"? It is not so that one 90 minutes
> Long and would have to sit next to any crank rotate or something.
>
> It starts the capture and then just make something else.

The word "profit" of my outpost was appropriate. Apart from
- If you have more than 1 or 2 movies so wishes, may be "real time"
already be annoying.


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Answer by Wolfgang Hauser:

Arno Welzel wrote:

>> The biggest annoyance is not so much the =
Capacity Limit
>> Itself, but after a short time aufgebohrte successors and
>> The resulting compatibility issues. SDXC is already
>> In the starting blocks, these cards are SDHC devices as =
few
>> Run as SDHC cards in SD devices today - and many devices, =
especially
>> Card readers and mounting slots in notebooks, for example, you can see the
>> Standard of externally supported not.
>
> SD was established in 2001. SDHC was 2006 - five years later =
and

There are still buying units, which can not SDHC, and in
this is my view less synonymous around the release date
as a device to its useful life. It would not =
unusual
that I am today with storage capacity to buy and X in 3, 4 years
same device with the then customary with 8X or 16X feed =
wants.

Blöd is the latest, if there is no replenishment of the old =
System
more are wonderful devices and therefore forced to be shut down.
Olympus photographers know which song to sing - SmartMedia card
with 128 MB will be for many years to absurd prices lovers
traded.

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Answer by Heiko Nocon:

Wolfgang Hauser wrote:

> Olympus photographers know which song to sing - SmartMedia card
> with 128 MB will be for many years to absurd prices lovers
> traded.

Because this is so, I have no camera comes with proprietary storage system
into the house, even if they are otherwise in every respect would be first choice.
I looked straight up to date with a CameraLink temperate diving skills. "
An Olympus ¼ 1030 SW landed closer to the election, but then resigned
because of the memory system. While you can now have a much
Adapters (extortionate price!) Synonymous Micro-SD, but what should I do with
Micro-SD? Much more expensive than normal SD cards and so can not easily
to lose like a prison bowl. Absolutely not practicable.

And Sony equipment I already watch garnicht more. The
Learning's probably never.

The aim verrecken s.ihrer greed.

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Answer by Arno Welzel:

Wolfgang Hauser wrote:

> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>>> The biggest annoyance is not so much the capacity limit
>>> Itself, but after a short time aufgebohrte successors and
>>> The resulting compatibility issues. SDXC is already
>>> In the starting blocks, these cards are SDHC devices just
>>> Run as SDHC cards in SD devices today - and many devices, especially
>>> Card readers and mounting slots in notebooks, for example, you can see the
>>> Supported outside of standard irrelevant.
>> SD was established in 2001. SDHC was 2006 - five years later and
>
> There are still buying units, which can not SDHC, and in

The man, when you buy * now *, just avoid. Nobody is forced to
something to buy.

> This is my view less synonymous around the release date
> As a device to its useful life. It would not be unusual
> That I am today with storage capacity to buy and X in 3, 4 years
> With the same device then usual with 8X or 16X would like to feed.

Once it is known that something happens, you can synonymous provision by
one with replenishment supplies while there is still what gives. SD are
it still.

> Blöd is the latest, if there is no replenishment of the old system
> And you are more beautiful devices therefore forced to be shut down.
> Olympus photographers know which song to sing - SmartMedia card
> With 128 MB will be for many years to absurd prices lovers
> Traded.

In relation to capacity - yes.

This is true but synonymous for EDO RAM, SDRAM, or other technologies, the
either no longer produced, or only in small
Quantities. And the introduction of DDR and DDR2 is not as synonymous
long ago - though DDR3 is already at the door.


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Answer by Bernd Nomi:

Nocon Heiko wrote:
> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> There is "10x" in fact a
>> clear profit of 9 minutes instead of just before 90th
>
> To what extent is this a "profit"? It is not so that one 90 minutes
> Long and would have to sit next to any crank rotate or something.
>
> It starts the capture and then just make something else.

So it is! Many almost compulsively save time and do not know why;)
When one does something professionally, it is something else, then this would
but certainly not with a "Popelrechner" and with amateur programs.

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