Logo Logo
/// 
50i oder 25F ?

50i or 25F?



Frage von GiZ:
April 2008

Hi,

So first time I'm new, so sorry if something is wrong or something: D
I've synonymous diligently used the search but no really satisfactory answer. My question is. What is the real best picture with the XH-A1 to reach. There are several possibilities. Now I read in 25F HDV is theoretically s.Besten, but then some say that partly in a lot of bucking Picture arises. How does this also with HDV at 50i? I will therefore in any case in HDV recording only knows I do not 25F or 50i? And then just the best shutterspeed ... 1 / 25 or 1 / 50?

Thank you in advance:)



Antwort von Markus:

"GIZ" wrote:
Now I read in 25F HDV is theoretically s.Besten, but then some say that partly in a lot of bucking Picture arises. How does this also with HDV at 50i?

The link is actually quite simple: The more images per second, the more liquid can be moved motifs play.

The noticeable difference especially in fast movements, the 25F-mode can be jerky impression. The faster the movement, the more pronounced the effect is apparent.



Antwort von beiti:

The 25F mode, you should only use it if you absolutely need full (for example, closing date movie, video for Web or as a "film look" effect).

For all normal applications 50i is the better alternative, because it dissolves better movements.








Antwort von GiZ:

Thanks for the info!



Antwort von DeeZiD:

"beiti" wrote:
The 25F mode, you should only use it if you absolutely need full (for example, closing date movie, video for Web or as a "film look" effect).

For all normal applications 50i is the better alternative, because it dissolves better movements.


If we add that the internal deinterlacer the A1 (at 25f mode) is not the synonymous yellow from the egg is ...

With Avisynth and SecureBob looks better simply:)
And Not to get so full 50p raus!

And hopefully the future will eventually be fully progressive. Could it simply no longer see soon;)

Gruß Dennis



Antwort von Axel:

"DeeZiD" wrote:

If we add that the internal deinterlacer the A1 (at 25f mode) is not the synonymous yellow from the egg is ...

With Avisynth and SecureBob looks better simply:)
And Not to get so full 50p raus!


720p50 that's about it. But what no preference, Dennis, lad but please take a deinterlaceten snippets with Avisynth, which is meaningful in RapidShare high, would be nice.

Among the weaknesses of 25f or 25p, this is Quark. Taking basically with shutter 1/50tel to derive no Jerkiness disturbing. After my own personal tastes outweigh the benefits of the full, even with the supposedly bad deinterlacer A1.



Antwort von DeeZiD:

A1 had no material here, which I should publish.
Would be nice to me if you could play 50i material.

Gruß Dennis



Antwort von wolfgang:

"Axel" wrote:

Among the weaknesses of 25f or 25p, this is Quark. Taking basically with shutter 1/50tel to derive no Jerkiness disturbing. After my own personal tastes outweigh the benefits of the full, even with the supposedly bad deinterlacer A1.


Axel, I have happened to a small test series with 50i source material made, filmed with 1/50s, and 25p and 50p wmv wmv created. Of course, the jerky 25p material stronger than the 50i source material created or 50p target material. Since I already share the opinion of Markus.

Whether someone feels disturbing, I think another question - I am with you.



Antwort von WoWu:

Somehow, the Tread always assumed that 25F is equal to 25p. But this is not the case because there is already a very big difference, whether with Skip with two interlaced images per 1/50s or progressive in a full 1 / 25 sec or as two interlaced images per Canon into a full merge. This is especially the motion blur over with. Comparison (i) - (p) - (F), the F-images from s.schlechtesten. So hands off of 25F. That would be the worst of all elections. Each 25p Picture is miles better.



Antwort von GiZ:

Thank you for the many replies. Some topics have me confused but I think then that the last one brings it to the point. Once again, thank you!



Antwort von Axel:

"DeeZiD" wrote:
A1 had no material here, which I should publish.
Would be nice to me if you could play 50i material.

To thee then a bothersome recode (from the QT HDV version) to spare, I would have with a friend as m2t capture. But I will do. 3, 4 seconds road should be enough.
"WoWu" wrote:
Somehow, the Tread always assumed that 25F is equal to 25p. But this is not the case because there is already a very big difference, whether with Skip with two interlaced images per 1/50s or progressive in a full 1 / 25 sec or as two interlaced images per Canon into a full merge. This is especially the motion blur over with. Comparison (i) - (p) - (F), the F-images from s.schlechtesten. So hands off of 25F. That would be the worst of all elections. Each 25p Picture is miles better.

The motion blur is over? What does this mean? Who not only photo spreads in a row cuts, but an active and lively Camera motives estimates is motion blur, as long as he is not on the shutter time setting, where synonymous Jerkiness 50i.

It is the motion blur to reveal progressive playback equipment (on so many different view, so I say naughty: in all!), When in Interlaceverfahren was. Interpolated blur does not seem to be so easy. That may be a not disturb you, it is usual, but it is also clearly visible - if it respects - such as "Filmjudder" which shakes at 24 / resp. 25p. This disturbs many now seem to turn. Amazingly, since all the movies recorded with this frequency and not only in the movies, but at home as synonymous play.

What, above all, the 25F mode is not present, is motion blur which deinterlacetes "i" marks.

That should not be stubborn religious war. I hear of Dennis, that the deinterlacer with Avisynth better results. And 50p is certainly the best solution to this vexing issue times finally comes off the table. DVDs or BDs with 50p? There's still much to do.



Antwort von Ficeduld:

I take this old thread up in the hope that we can tie a better bag.
If I may summarize, says Wowu 25F was the worst of all variants (?) On the other user name like Axel and beiti the advantages of this mode for Web, etc.
Deezid there is a conversion of 50i after 25 p with external software better, a comparison is made, however.
In another thread: http://forum.slashcam.de/test-des-24f-modes-der-canon-xh-a1-vt47233.htmlSo, nun wollte ich mal weitere the XH A1 users ask in which mode, "i" or "F" is filming her and why.

I have until now (until a few weeks) only filmed in 25F and am very satisfied. Have home only LCD and Plasma TV

Regards
Joachim









Antwort von tommyb:

Then I'll interpret:

25p / f better for Web:
Yes, if you do not deinterlacer can use or wants

50i to 25p / f transform:
Best solution, because it a very good deinterlacer gives the typical 25p Jerkiness well compensated in pans, on the other hand, you remain flexible when you post for example would like to incorporate slow motion. 50i, of course, has no such high Resolutionwie 25p, but who says that the camera records the 25p natively and not interpolated?

25p / f only makes sense when one turns rigid attitudes and not shake too much.



Antwort von Axel:

"tommyb" wrote:
25p / f only makes sense when one turns rigid attitudes and not shake too much.
Ouch! I can no longer hear. So sweeping is simply FALSE. Properly applied is almost the opposite. Correct words: Rigid settings differ not at all with "i" and "p", so "does" nothing more or less sense. "Too much swing you can, in fact. There are synonymous for 50i an incorrect swing speed. Mach doch mal a panoramic swivel in "i" on a landscape with many vertical structures (trees, fences, power poles), and then I like to listen to how beautiful it all looks!

@ ficeduld: Find also still "f" better than "i", only to deinterlaces 720p50 (H.264) is trying, so no comparison possible (based on the deinterlacer of DeeZiD mentioned with Avisynth).



Antwort von tommyb:

Sorry, but if with an SD-PAL-progressive turn your camcorder and the same "rigid attitude" interlaced, then you have tomatoes on the eyes when you see no difference.

And a swing with 50i jerky definitely never been as beautiful as 25p. Just twist and s.Röhren TV or CRT monitor (for example, ranges from 9044 already) watching.



Antwort von Axel:

"tommyb" wrote:
Sorry, but if with an SD-PAL-progressive turn your camcorder and the same "rigid attitude" interlaced, then you have tomatoes on the eyes when you see no difference.
For 50i halved the optimal Shutterzeit. Whether through the automatic shutter or aperture can be compensated make a difference, the picture may look slightly different. What is crucial here: For a Picture unmoving differ both Halbbildfelder still time, but they are still almost a full screen. For adaptive deinterlacing 1:1 would all pixels into a single picture together. Even in peaceful movements, such a person, the measured step through the picture, there is hardly any difference to notice. With a strong movement of the subject or camera motion (swing) fits no single pixel of the first to the second field below. The fields spatially and temporally slip.

"tommyb" wrote:
And a swing with 50i jerky definitely never been as beautiful as 25p. Just twist and s.Röhren TV or CRT monitor (for example, ranges from 9044 already) watching.
That's true. Repeat we are here again (see my signature), in the event that someone has never heard. It jerky on a tube was not worse than on a plasma. Joachim "Ficedult" has certainly not synonymous pans waived ...



Antwort von Ficeduld:

Lieber wär me if there XH-A1 users would tell with what fashion they really filming. The theoretical discussion would be unnecessary because everyone is filming it so well that he likes the result s.besten.



Antwort von Schlafsack:

So I film exclusively with 50i. Have briefly 25f angetestet and it came with jerky before. Ergo: Do I need not.



Antwort von Fridu:

Question, since it is often of F are talking about. When I SonyPMW-EX1 for the HD-mode 1920 x 1080 I only have 50i or 25P for Choice. Is the Canon F something specific? In my opinion, I go with HD mode with better than 50i synonymous with 25P, but the differences probably only moving objects in highly visible. Would you take synonymous 50i for quiet recordings?

Fridu



Antwort von Axel:

"Fridu" wrote:
Is the Canon F something specific?
Yes.
"Fridu" wrote:
In my opinion, I go with HD mode with better than 50i synonymous with 25P, but the differences probably only moving objects in highly visible. Would you take synonymous 50i for quiet recordings?
The Camera can 720p50 yet, right? If you move to a better resolution goes, but nimm das When you can quiet recordings with 1080i25 (but synonymous with 1080p25, makes no difference, as described above) Very increase your resolution. Once the subject is moving but has any of your movement phases only 540 lines of picture height, and looks like subjective 720th 1080p still looks like 1080, because there are so full.

What we would take, so you can fairly be no preference. Test du but even using the same shooting situation, plus quiet road s.besten pans. There are just a good speed for panoramic pans!

A few tips for meaningful tests:

1. 25p always with 1/50tel shutter, ie for the comparison test the Belichttungsautomatik (Tv mode) will (under normal circumstances, the course manual Aperture determine this is indeed a matter of i and p in the comparable amount of light - through the automatic - to preserved). With another shutter looks really bad from 25p. For recording in the same since then i shutter to make 1/100tel. Anything else would distort the result.

2. Not on a computer monitor to compare. Then, the i - material resulting from the shitty deinterlacing method (with both fields will be displayed at the same time 25 fps> Combs!) From really bad. Better on a television panel, or at least with one of the live - deinterlacing methods of VLC player. Anything else would distort the result.

Then compare the images of critical (screenshots of still images in a violent movement if PC s.besten alternately over two player if TV). If you're especially nice, you post the result.



Antwort von Fridu:

Hi Axel

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Be the durchtesten times when I use the Camera of Sony getting voted back. Today just went out to the firmware update to France :-).

Fridu









Antworten zu ähnlichen Fragen:
MXFOP1A 25i / 50i
DV-Resolve 15 Studio, 50i importieren?
50i oder 25p am PC erkennen
50p zu 50i - Material der a7s nachträglich interlacen

















weitere Themen:
Spezialthemen


16:9
AI
ARD
AVCHD
AVI
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
After effects
Apple Final Cut Pro
Audio
Avid
Avid Media Composer
Cam
Camcorder
Camera
Canon
Capture
Capturing
Clip
EOS
Editing
Effect
Error
Export
File
Files
Film
Final Cut
Format
Formate
HDR
Import
JVC
KI
Layer
Light
MAGIX video deLuxe
Magix
Microphone
Monitor
Movie
PC
Panasonic
Pinnacle
Pinnacle Studio
Player
Premiere
RAM
RED
Recording
Red
Software
Sony
Sound
Studio
TV
Tape
Video
Videos