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AG_HVX200 hat nur - 370.000 Pixel = nicht HD oder?

AG_HVX200 only - 370,000 pixels = HD or not?



Frage von moviejohn2005:
April 2006

Now, it's amazing the Pansonic on the website any information regarding the pixels of the new Wonders of the World AG-HVX200. Does it have its reason?

In order to throw some light into the dark camcorder business:

AG-DVX100 = 370,000 pixels and 1 / 3 chip Kaufpeis ca 3000th - ¬
AG-HVX200 = 370,000 pixels and 1 / 3 chip --- price around 5000 - ¬
Varicam = 1 million pixels, and 2 / 3 chip price ---- about 60,000 .- ¬

For amateur filmmakers, the AG-HVX is certainly a nice tool like it to, AG-DVX100 has been and is still synonymous (is synonymous 370.000 .- Pixel 1 / 3 chip), but he who thinks s.seriöse productions, the lack of pixels are not simply replace it, and certainly not synonymous if the row count is still rising:
Conclusion --- realistic.

Filmmakers for the hire of equipment is the best solution. We do not make a movie with equipment alone but with a good script and a little budget.
The Varicam (REAL HD) is currently the 2999th week for eg - ¬ preserve, carry and with more equipment than a normal person can.

www.rentavaricam.com (in Munich or so)
Per day are the 499th - ¬!

For Filmmakers with 630,000 PIXEL ambitions are a world.
Sure, exceptions prove the rule, and Panasonic will be sure (Sonymacht the same) spread the love by adding a star producer / director makes a movie with the new camera. Only someone who is looking for a rental so his film will at least get on TV, which has 99.9% on 16mm, HD (Varicam or Sony) or even produced on 35mm will notice.
Man does it stop yet. Increase the chances of a successful marketing with the Pixel ..
Clearly a bad movie is a bad film.



Antwort von PowerMac:

What the hell do you mean?
Filmmaking is hard and heavy fare that can cause diarrhea?

You pull yourself up as s.spekulierten numbers game. You have no idea about the true Resolutionder CCDs of HXX200. Out of nothing we can not derive ANY statements. I do not know the true Resolutionauch. Apart from that, there is a difference between pixels on the CCD and Resolutionin lines.

In addition, the Resolutionsicher is so bad as of your claims. This can be seen from the whole sample videos. Dv.com the test is wrong. The number of rows, there is faulty.



Antwort von Axel:

"PowerMac" wrote:
In addition, the Resolutionsicher (sic) is as bad as of your claims. This can be seen from the whole sample videos. Dv.com the test is wrong. The number of rows, there is faulty.


Faulty? The test was conducted but with the participation of the HVX-specialist book authors, I assume that the result was therefore only tested once (when the test was synonymous partially implemented larifari so that he may not be) the scientific name. Whether it is for devices in this price range with models such blatant errors Monday?





Antwort von PowerMac:

Faulty I said. Not "larifari.

The people said there yourself:
"The HVX's resolution numbers are suspect and should not be trusted until further testing is done."

Unfortunately, a few days ago has been added to:
"(In late February, Panasonic revealed that the HVX200 uses 960x540-element CCDs with both horizontal and vertical pixel shift, which explains the resolution numbers for the HVX200.)"

Nominally, the chip is really not so good. Line of resolution is not everything. The dynamic range, sensitivity, color are synonymous interesting. Synonymous, one should not forget that during filming of resolution maps only black, gray and white to differentiate. Pixel shift does not work here. In contrast is the situation at the (gay) world for the very good sharpness compared to the HVX200 explains.



Antwort von mario72:

So the 370,000 pixels of the HVX200, I doubt very synonymous, since it requires even more computer with 415,000 pixels.
The 960 * 540 (= exactly half Resolutionvon HDV) but I think even for realistic if pixel shift is performed in both directions. In the FX1 with 960 * 1080 pixel shift is indeed carried out horizontally only.
Why Pixelshift should not work the way in SW? The Green at 3 CCD sensor is shifted by half a pixel width and resulting additional brightness information is drawn. Are to be distinguished from general interpolation, as calculated for example in Monochipsensoren to the RGB information from the Beyer-matrix.

LGH



Antwort von Axel:

I'm not talking the camera bad, I just would like to clear doubts. Doubt: A chip with 540 pixel resolution (specify Panasonic) can dissolve a test image schärfemäßig synonymous only way. If the pixel shift effect in this case that the number of pixels in the final, has doubled to P2 card stored video itself, it is just only to chrominance information. You're right, Patrick, that the test card talks about Luminanzauflösung. Nevertheless, the double pixel no real pixels (not "RAW" - pixel), but the result of some kind of compression. And causes compression of experience in any situation compression artifacts.

The test films and pictures look very good, however, seems to be an intelligent process. Question: What happens during processing?



Antwort von prem:

"PowerMac" wrote:
What the hell do you mean?
Filmmaking is hard and heavy fare that can cause diarrhea?

You pull yourself up as s.spekulierten numbers game. You have no idea about the true Resolutionder CCDs of HXX200. Out of nothing we can not derive ANY statements. I do not know the true Resolutionauch. Apart from that, there is a difference between pixels on the CCD and Resolutionin lines.

In addition, the Resolutionsicher is so bad as of your claims. This can be seen from the whole sample videos. Dv.com the test is wrong. The number of rows, there is faulty.


I like to give private lessons ...

720x576 = 414,000 pixels (DVX100)
960x720 = 515,000 pixels (HVX200)
They are therefore faced with the DVX100 exactly 24% more pixels on the chip!
What remains after the codec is a different matter.
In the DVX100 is the effective 380,000 pixels.

If you hate to be recorded on tape ... (I hope not!)
then you deal with 4:1:1 and 5:1 compression. = In consumer HD

If you hate to be recorded with P2 ....
you become the DJ with a huge wallet ... 8min record cost you 2000.-USD
but who has the hat!

I am trying to help my friend ... sometimes doing honestly meant help stop hurting.
Or why do you think you will find nothing about the pixels in the official brochure?

HD IS REAL AND IS:
1280 x 720 pixels or 1920x1080

I did not feel like my purchase expensive HD-SONY SCREEN watch movies
the one device a Resolutionhaben like a normal TV.

Conclusion:
Anyone who wants to record his birthday / holiday, yet needs no HVX200!
A DVX100 now loose for 2000 .- ¬ synonymous have to do it safely.

Who has more ambitions, such as a short film should turn its money -
put into production, script ideas, camera rentals etc! In the end, we have indeed
no camera but a finished movie on a professional format as
the Varicam or SonyF900! HD was created to improve the quality of television
improve-True HD is a selling point, whether on DVD, or TV for CINEMA!



Antwort von entertainer:

Hello, the same debate I've followed the last few months in the States. Snore. When you see the pictures of the HVX you will know that it is "true HD". And for those who want to have more data here is a link: feed: / / toshpit.blogs.com / the_toshpit / atom.xml



Antwort von PowerMac:

I have been following the discussion synonymous. Both dvxuser as synonymous with dvinfo.
The sample videos are sometimes unbelievable. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?f=57&page=2&order=desc
Simply look through time ...
The lower Resolutionmag be objective, but are sensitivity, dynamic range, color, look, compression all very, very good.



Antwort von prem:

I can not understand the whining about the Resolutionauch so completely: but the image quality is ultimately the key and you see the test videos, which can be found on the web to see my ideas from all film-like than anything I see in the DV area so far as could.
Because if I really had the full number of pixels available to me to be really no preference. Why is still on it in all possible plasma screens with a native Resolutionniedriger than PAL "HD Ready"? Somehow I have the impression that the industry wants to make fun of ourselves a little.
Anyway, after everything I've seen so far, I'm going to buy the HVX 200 - according to the NAB. Maybe it is yet another Cracker (like this: http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/).

Greeting
January



Antwort von Goohn:

"Anonymous" wrote:
I can not understand the whining about the Resolutionauch so completely: but the image quality is ultimately the key and you see the test videos, which can be found on the web to see my ideas from all film-like than anything I see in the DV area so far as could.
Because if I really had the full number of pixels available to me to be really no preference. Why is still on it in all possible plasma screens with a native Resolutionniedriger than PAL "HD Ready"? Somehow I have the impression that the industry wants to make fun of ourselves a little.
Anyway, after everything I've seen so far, I'm going to buy the HVX 200 - according to the NAB. Maybe it is yet another Cracker (like this: http://siliconimaging.com/DigitalCinema/).

Greeting
January

Hello Jan, the definition of HD is clearly laid down in (Wikipedia) and did indeed do something with the Resolutionzu.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV#Volldigital_.28ab_1990er.29

Here are some test results clearly show the differences!
http://www.rentavaricam.com/realhd.html

I see it this way: If we could simply replace one pixel they're not needed. Why spend so well 8500th - ¬ incl 2x8min memory when the Resolutionzur normal DVX100 only about 24% is better and that is to have for 2000 .- ¬?

The HVX200 does not provide anything other than better by 24% SD resolution. A notable advance-clear, but it is still not real HD.

Whether one can see the difference between 500,000 and 1 million pixels to pixels, or even 2 million pixels on the Varicam F900 is no serious question as to what the above test makes clear synonymous.

Who is willing to lie for his hobby least 8000th - ¬ gets for his money-certainly a nice camera. Who is lying down 2000 .- ¬ for the DVX synonymous not much worse off.



Antwort von Goohn:

"entertainer" wrote:
Hello, the same debate I've followed the last few months in the States. Snore. When you see the pictures of the HVX you will know that it is "true HD". And for those who want to have more data here is a link: feed: / / toshpit.blogs.com / the_toshpit / atom.xml

Is that your serious? Snore! Of water and wine is made from 35mm and is 16mm <500.ooo Pixel HD is!
Because I want to see your face ... sop to the purchase of an HD-DVD and then the 500,000 pixels s.HDTV. gähnnn ... just kannste Standad watch TV and save yourself buying a regular DVD the big bucks!
I would call s.Kunden was already HD ... if I will not see unnd synonymous true HD a little better SD blown up to HD.



Antwort von deepcode:

can wenns after Resolutiongeht synonymous small HC-3 or HC-1 for 1000 $ or take .. The fact is knackscharf compared with the HVX at 1920, and even suggests the VariCam.
Nevertheless, the HVX is better-looking photos and characterized a great part of storytelling, especially here it is more important to the look than on the technical Resolutionan.
The Varicam has - uprezzed to 1920p - slightly sharper than the HVX, but IMO no worlds. With all the accessories and the 2 / 3 inch sensors as well as the improved DOF Varicam is of course a completely professional system. However, you can rent for much less one HVX synonymous with accessories - is the film, the story is true, certainly do not detract from work professionally and can thus synonymous, synonymous, perhaps if we must make some small concessions.
Resolutionist apart from the least important of approximately 100 criteria, the decision about whether a film successful or not.



Antwort von Axel:

"deepcode" wrote:
Nevertheless, the HVX is better-looking photos and characterized a great part of storytelling, especially here it is more important to the look than on the technical Resolutionan.


Indeed. Even though I have this same thread of bad things to the HVX given me, I also want to have to defend them against such accusations synonymous:

"Anonymous" wrote:
I would call s.Kunden was already HD ... if I will not see unnd synonymous true HD a little better SD blown up to HD.


Because it's not quite so. Any record of 24/30 or 25 frames are saved to the P2/der Fire doors in a Resolutionbis to 1080p. This is in itself quite an achievement, since there are synonymous, the method of (not always accurately), simultaneous recording of the upper and lower field and interpretation as progessive material. HDV, in which there is no "real" frame, but a hierarchy of related information-bites in the GOP, works for pixelmäßig full coverage with a much higher temporal compression. Even when they are saved because of the pixel-shift tricks only every second pixel brightness of new information, the Picture, with a scaler and DLP on a 20 meter-wide screen, fantastic - synonymous in the neighborhood where this projection size synonymous Pixel HD are clearly visible. Even the highly magnified picture of the Z1 was always perfect, but far sharper (1080i) and far more brilliant. I labere no nonsense, look like movie pictures, I know, that's my job. For now, I'm not disappointed then. With so much coal still I'm waiting for a possible "hook" (Wrap in Monochrome?).
The SonyHVR-Z1 is well until further notice "the" professional HD-Cam for both industrial films as synonymous for sleek TV reports, in which a 2 / 3 inch camera would simply be too unwieldy.
The Panasonic is - perhaps - the camera for the small film auteur, if this thread does not have rules:
http://forum.slashcam.de/discovery-channel-lehnt-hvx200-filmmaterial-grundsatzlich-ab-vp140379.html#140379

I call the "guest on" to name a source.



Antwort von moviejohn2005:

"Axel" wrote:
"deepcode" wrote:
Nevertheless, the HVX is better-looking photos and characterized a great part of storytelling, especially here it is more important to the look than on the technical Resolutionan.


Indeed. Even though I have this same thread of bad things to the HVX given me, I also want to have to defend them against such accusations synonymous:

"Anonymous" wrote:
I would call s.Kunden was already HD ... if I will not see unnd synonymous true HD a little better SD blown up to HD.


Because it's not quite so. Any record of 24/30 or 25 frames are saved to the P2/der Fire doors in a Resolutionbis to 1080p. This is in itself quite an achievement, since there are synonymous, the method of (not always accurately), simultaneous recording of the upper and lower field and interpretation as progessive material. HDV, in which there is no "real" frame, but a hierarchy of related information-bites in the GOP, works for pixelmäßig full coverage with a much higher temporal compression. Even when they are saved because of the pixel-shift tricks only every second pixel brightness of new information, the Picture, with a scaler and DLP on a 20 meter-wide screen, fantastic - synonymous in the neighborhood where this projection size synonymous Pixel HD are clearly visible. Even the highly magnified picture of the Z1 was always perfect, but far sharper (1080i) and far more brilliant. I labere no nonsense, look like movie pictures, I know, that's my job. For now, I'm not disappointed then. With so much coal still I'm waiting for a possible "hook" (Wrap in Monochrome?).
The SonyHVR-Z1 is well until further notice "the" professional HD-Cam for both industrial films as synonymous for sleek TV reports, in which a 2 / 3 inch camera would simply be too unwieldy.
The Panasonic is - perhaps - the camera for the small film auteur, if this thread does not have rules:
http://forum.slashcam.de/discovery-channel-lehnt-hvx200-filmmaterial-grundsatzlich-ab-vp140379.html#140379

I call the "guest on" to name a source.


Axel,
I agree with you. The HVX200 is a good tool for specific shooting situations, and certainly well suited. And I must tell a story, white, and I certainly synonymous, it is primarily intended. I ask myself the question why do I only ever then AVX200 need? Without a doubt, the DVX100 synonymous makes great pictures. When the guests will experience what it says (DC.. Rejects), but I would consider a program dedicated to HD Project with making the marketing of HD with the aim to AVX200. SD's do it safely and is synonymous to expensive lengths.

For my Short Film (HD production) - (35mm transf), the HVX200 is not an issue because of the small Resolutioneh. Equal to either film or real HD, Varicam or F900 .. basta! Both cameras produce so synonymous the film look. The Varicam thanks subsidized post-production is probably my tool for my film. The risk of having to bother me in the end with silly questions format of resolution / projection in the Movies by 300 - ¬ rental fee has to save me the thing does not value.

The theme (Discovery Channel) is highly interesting, as you have some postings found in U.S. forums .. seems to be well fact. Well
I'll call in this context, several times German channel ... I hope that out war, my what an HD standard.



Antwort von Streifenschneider:

Hello,

Although am not the "guest", but I have found to the following:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=51541&highlight=Discovery+Channel.

So actually seems to be fakes.

Of course, the DVX synonymous makes great pictures (you look only at times of the trailer on the Page: http://www.wakefilms.com/films.htm - which are all made with the DVX, but the colors were processed in the mail yet. By the way synonymous one, in my view, brilliant editing -), especially the 3d effect, but the DVX has, unfortunately, no variable frame rates, offers no real 16:9 and records only on tapes.
The P2 cards are very expensive though at the moment, but that will change soon and safe and there's so synonymous alternatives in the form of external hard disk recorders.

If Panasonic would bring a DVX with true 16:9, it would be the cam, I would probably buy (for me at the moment, HD is really yet) a topic, but I would probably still choose the HVX (images easy to see pixels or not, is pretty convincing from), and of course the price (especially for the P2 cards) is quite severe.

However, the NAB will start tomorrow - maybe synonymous is one alternative (a Canon XM3 is really synonymous long overdue, right?).

Greeting
January



Antwort von PowerMac:

"moviejohn2005" wrote:
"Axel" wrote:
"deepcode" wrote:
Nevertheless, the HVX is better-looking photos and characterized a great part of storytelling, especially here it is more important to the look than on the technical Resolutionan.


Indeed. Even though I have this same thread of bad things to the HVX given me, I also want to have to defend them against such accusations synonymous:

"Anonymous" wrote:
I would call s.Kunden was already HD ... if I will not see unnd synonymous true HD a little better SD blown up to HD.


Because it's not quite so. Any record of 24/30 or 25 frames are saved to the P2/der Fire doors in a Resolutionbis to 1080p. This is in itself quite an achievement, since there are synonymous, the method of (not always accurately), simultaneous recording of the upper and lower field and interpretation as progessive material. HDV, in which there is no "real" frame, but a hierarchy of related information-bites in the GOP, works for pixelmäßig full coverage with a much higher temporal compression. Even when they are saved because of the pixel-shift tricks only every second pixel brightness of new information, the Picture, with a scaler and DLP on a 20 meter-wide screen, fantastic - synonymous in the neighborhood where this projection size synonymous Pixel HD are clearly visible. Even the highly magnified picture of the Z1 was always perfect, but far sharper (1080i) and far more brilliant. I labere no nonsense, look like movie pictures, I know, that's my job. For now, I'm not disappointed then. With so much coal still I'm waiting for a possible "hook" (Wrap in Monochrome?).
The SonyHVR-Z1 is well until further notice "the" professional HD-Cam for both industrial films as synonymous for sleek TV reports, in which a 2 / 3 inch camera would simply be too unwieldy.
The Panasonic is - perhaps - the camera for the small film auteur, if this thread does not have rules:
http://forum.slashcam.de/discovery-channel-lehnt-hvx200-filmmaterial-grundsatzlich-ab-vp140379.html#140379

I call the "guest on" to name a source.


Axel,
I agree with you. The HVX200 is a good tool for specific shooting situations, and certainly well suited. And I must tell a story, white, and I certainly synonymous, it is primarily intended. I ask myself the question why do I only ever then AVX200 need? Without a doubt, the DVX100 synonymous makes great pictures. When the guests will experience what it says (DC.. Rejects), but I would consider a program dedicated to HD Project with making the marketing of HD with the aim to AVX200. SD's do it safely and is synonymous to expensive lengths.

For my Short Film (HD production) - (35mm transf), the HVX200 is not an issue because of the small Resolutioneh. Equal to either film or real HD, Varicam or F900 .. basta! Both cameras produce so synonymous the film look. The Varicam thanks subsidized post-production is probably my tool for my film. The risk of having to bother me in the end with silly questions format of resolution / projection in the Movies by 300 - ¬ rental fee has to save me the thing does not value.

The theme (Discovery Channel) is highly interesting, as you have some postings found in U.S. forums .. seems to be well fact. Well
I'll call in this context, several times German channel ... I hope that out war, my what an HD standard.


You with your annoying nominal Auflsösung. The interest anyone. Ruf doch mal "Your Channel" on. A good picture, nice colors and a technically good picture resolution is needed. Nothing more.



Antwort von prem:

I always thought the cameras to record in HDTV are ect for different compression rate. not for TV. Or I can now but with an HDTV camera HD filming and PAL-to fit without quality loss?



Antwort von Markus:

I think you are confusing professional HD (TV) with consumer HDV. The HVX-200 DVCProHD returns with a data rate of 100 Mbit / s, while HDV only at 25 Mbps herumeiert. ;-)




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