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AVCHD, HD, Blue-Ray, Interlace, HD-DVD, DV...

AVCHD, HD, Blue Ray, interlaced, HD-DVD, DV ..... Help



Frage von Flipser:
Dezember 2007

Hello together!
It comes as an advanced amateur filmmakers ritener actually no longer around to HD, if only, if you shop around or read magazines. My problem is this: I lack a little basic knowledge. Since there are so many terms, one of which is talk that Blu-Ray is a format, but I thought it is only a medium or what is the difference between AVCHD and Full-HD and why is it so difficult to cut even though it supposedly same size as DV and why HD is not larger, which is working with Interlase and what does not and, anyway?

These are a few of the questions at me screaming for an answer.

So anyone knows a good website to read or where you look quite fundamental about high definition information is most easily started? I would be very grateful for a tip! Thank you!

Flips



Antwort von Werner Küster:

See in Slashcam DV lexicon. The concepts are well explained.
You can find almost everything.

Of greeting

Werner Küster



Antwort von sh20:

here on the fast times
[list]
* blue-ray really is primarily a medium, however, synonymous associate a certain video encoding so, namely that which the Blue-ray player (which you connect s.den Screen) can decode ... Exactly the same is with DVD: eigtl a medium ( "data DVD"), but synonymous associated with a specific video coding (all available for sale and self-DVDs Video-DVDs use the same type, the video coding, which is based on MPEG 2, thus all DVD players can play!)

* HD stands for High Definition, so high resolution, there are two specifications: one 720 vertical scan lines, and even 1080 vertical scan lines. p and i behind it indicate whether it is progressive or interlaced:
eg means 720/50p: 50 frames per second with Resolution720 * 1280
1080/50i: it is all a half 1/50s (alternately straight and all odd rows) to the vertical resolution of a half is only 540 lines. When motives are therefore theoretically Resolutionvon 1080 vertical lines (VL) is possible

* With a 16:9 picture are calculated image size 720x1280 and 1080x1920, with HDV to save the amount of data only 1440 horizontal pixels, are then in a horizontal direction are stretched. Cameras, the images in full horizontal resolution (ie, with 1920 pixels) at a time are considered "FULL HD" means, although that term is synonymous otherwise marketed, thereby "FULL HD" yet says nothing at all ..

* Previously, I spoke of the Resolutions, in which the video data are recorded. The real physical resolution (as fine objects are not blurred), however, experience significantly lower (a little over 600 VL). The real resolution is synonymous with the encoding specified.

* To the enormous amount of data of a high-resolution movie on tape or on the hard drive / memory card to get the data must be compressed: this is the video encoding responsible. (For DV, there was no strong Compression. For equally compressed HD material you would need for one hour film about 45 GB of space ...)

And here there are different formats: in principle based on the HD encoding either MPEG2 (HDV, JVC's MPEG-2 TS) or MPEG4 / H.264 (AVCHD), using MPEG4 more compressed than MPEG2.

* The greater the compression, the more difficult post (analogue: the more intelligent and space saving is a crockery cupboard concedes, the more utensils fit into a closet-size solid, however you need to Get Published (Edit) a rear cup synonymous correspondingly longer). For editing of HD material, you must then decode the video first, then 3.5 times as many pixels edit and then re-encode, which hold more effort, vswenn the encoding space and so complicated and rechenaufwändig is ...

* The compressions differ in the way they are with spatial and temporal Resolutionumgehen and what information will be discarded and therefore bring different quality

* The very precise implementation of the compression / encoding of still hangs from the company: This is Canon - Panasonic AVCHD AVCHD is not the same ... so everyone has his own flavor

* Slashcam camcorderinfo.com and inform you beautiful, what Cams interlaced and what really progressive record on-time, most consumer cams interlaced.

* Hmm, that's now of a non-professional with Ungegnauigkeiten in detail, but good fürn overview.

PS: I've written here, because I like Blue ray is not in DV-Lexikon saw maybe I've just synonymous potatoes aufn eyes

[/ list: u: 2a400aac29]








Antwort von sh20:

Super Declaration synonymous for a somewhat advanced.
Only Blu-Ray you write like that.



Antwort von besucher2007:

Great explanation, obviously, not all terms in the computer lexicon included. So here's a hint, without advertising to make: In the "Video Aktiv Digital" lie at A6 booklet, in which "compactly knowledge" about the topics "HDV technology" and "AVCHD technology" relating to explanations can be found. Whether you something about mini-Blu-Ray (AVCHD DVD) or Blu-Ray is looking for, even for such an old Cracker still like me to understand. If the Product is omitted synonymous certainly a way to understand a topic. For me this is all interesting, I finally floating synonymous temporarily in the "digital video universe" but synonymous in the "HDV-star." People remember, Christmas is soon ...
Gruß Werner of Küster

And Merry Christmas!



Antwort von Flipser:

Super! Many, many thanks for the review! Has helped me a lot!

Only one thing I am still nothing .... AVCHD. I thought it would, so to speak, the improvement of the normal HD, since it is with 1920 pixels is, in contrast to the normal HD procedure, which creates only the 1280 .... Now I hear, however, that MPEG 4 (with the AVCHD works) is more compressed than the normal Mpeg 2 HDs. What is better now?

Regards
Flips



Antwort von WoWu:

For details:
http://www.auberge-tv.de/Book-on-demand/Inhaltsangabe.html



Antwort von Quadruplex:

"Flips" wrote:
AVCHD. I thought it would, so to speak, the improvement of the normal HD, since it is with 1920 pixels is, in contrast to the normal HD procedure, which creates only the 1280 ...

Typical case of Viertelswissenverschwurbelung ... :-)

AVCHD is a generic term MPEG4 / H.264-based, for high video resolutions suitable data reduction techniques. AVCHD is designed to 1920x1080 - not everyone uses it but camcorder.
The second, in normal camcorders, high definition format called HDV, and supports up to 1440x1080 - not 1280x720.
"Flips" wrote:
. Now I hear, however, that MPEG 4 (with the AVCHD works) is more compressed than the normal Mpeg 2 HDs.

Right.
"Flips" wrote:
What is better now?

In general, format with high data reduction have advantages in space, but are more demanding when cutting / finishing. So you are buying you an advantage with a disadvantage. Among the opportunities and post-impossibilities of AVCHD and HDV is here in the forum have said it all ...
-> Search!



Antwort von WoWu:

To dieViertelswissenverschwurbelung ... even more attractive eighth ...

AVCHD is merely a registered trademark of Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (Panasonic) and SonyCorporation.
Under the trademark, the company camcorder on the market, the z.Tl. a profile from MPEG2 (4:3) using H14 and partly both HD format 1280x720 and 1920x1080, because there are 2 (real) HD format. Not only is HD 1920.
The brand uses the AVCHD compression technology of MPEG-4 H.264.
This is an evolution and addition of MPEG2.
Numerous changes have the new standard so effectively done that testing of the "Blue-Ray Association showed that s.16Mbit / s with a feature film, the difference with the original is no longer observed.
Insofar H.264 with MPEG2 is not really compare, because such a result would be with MPEG2 can not be achieved.
S.einer German university studies have shown that the computing power required for the encoding is dependent on what tools you use and how well the tasks of the software are distributed.
The requirements vary between the 1.6 and the 3-fold compared to MPEG2.
Both 2, as synonymous 4 thread x86 are capable of real-time requirements. (Limit to 2 threads about 10 Mbit / s (60 images) and 4 threads about 15 Mbit / s (60Bilder)) --
This in addition of CABAC, the current extreme requirement s.den Calculator.
Without CABAC see the data much more relaxed and only the Singel Tread rising real time at 10 Mbit request.
The 2 and 4 to 20 Mbit / s with 82 or 102 frames / sec, so they have more air.
The myth that the calculator can not do everything, so the land belongs to the legend.
Of course, it is synonymous depends on how well an NLE and distributes the tasks of course synonymous, what other things on the calculator so s.Tasks "accelerate" are.
Such things can be a CPU of course, synonymous in the knees. This then has nothing more to do with H.264.
Otherwise, MPEG 4 still so many improvements that are already listed here all have been.

Note that obviously synonymous HDV 1280x720, that is defined according to the SMPTE HD, compared to 1440x1080 which is 4:3 as MPEG2 format is defined (H14) and only by interpolating to 1920x1080 done.

Among the aforementioned camcorders is to say that it is currently synonymous HD format 1920x1080 only reach by interpolation and not "real" Resolution Support.
Also does that mean "seal FullHD" this is not, but only that the devices s.Ein or with the output signal can bypass. Not but that in the full Resolutionerzeugt should be.

As far as relating to Viertelswissenverschwurbelung.



Antwort von Noakyl:

Quote:
The 2 and 4 to 20 Mbit / s with 82 or 102 frames / sec, so they have more air.
The myth that the calculator can not do everything, so the land belongs to the legend.
Of course, it is synonymous depends on how well an NLE and distributes the tasks of course synonymous, what other things on the calculator so s.Tasks "accelerate" are.
Such things can be a CPU of course, synonymous in the knees. This then has nothing more to do with H.264.
Otherwise, MPEG 4 still so many improvements that are already listed here all have been.


I read your posts every time and is very accurate.
There is always the sum of the same written

! Super Qualli, No problem with the processing!

Describe it out to a working configuration or AVCHD h264 AVC AAC incl material without IF and BUT Intermediatlösung pronounced as to be able to process. Say I want the story just as spartan cut solution see (hard cut, and CF w.Aperture max., Color correction (Collormatch)) OTonschnitt incl.

Output in all popular formats including the original formats.

The millions of DSPs which thou hast written Cams were installed in all of the available Boards in the price class of the cams I would find nothing.



Antwort von Noakyl:

I think it's important it be noted that at least for AVCHD hardware requirement on the part of the PC are quite happig, my laptop CoreDuo with 1.83 GHz x 2 with Pinnacle nity is not smooth cut me a default action in consequence of this is that my laptop is a 1 / 2 year old is back with the loss and must sell at least 1200 to 1500 euro for one issue, the liquid can edit AVCHD, not to forget that this year so I synonymous a 55 Full HD SonyKDS bought the video 's synonymous with neatly displayed get.
If you think the Camera's s.500 euros to get you and you then cut and display at least since 6 fach must spend, I find that on any new purchases for an instance, the consequences to any instance should be pointed out, this In my case, synonymous nor I have the MM player in the network with high data rate of the H.264 files are not clear and I have to come synonymous nor a suitable place and need to buy.



Antwort von WoWu:

Hello anonymous guest.

Maybe I am so honored that you are my contributions every time and very carefully read.

And yet it seems that the attention is not sufficient, because there are some you like, of me again and again repeated Details escaped.

1) I have always repeated that the proceedings must be established. The fact that the company synonymous opportunity to be their algorithms to develop and implement in products.

2) That the quality and efficiency of the products greatly the ability of this proprietary developments dependent.

3) The fact that broad-based with hardware assistance is to be expected, which, of course, primarily Cam, TV, Mon, etc., so mass-produced products. That the development of niche products such as PC cards, a relatively low priority with you, everyone can probably understand.
And your information comes from that all hardware products to the camcorder production?

4) The fact that not all the (cheap) supplier of NLE synonymous AVC will offer (theme license costs), that not all NLE manufacturers offer good solutions (see above).

5) You obviously synonymous've overlooked that very active users, such as Marcus here several of the current configurations correctly reported, are already running. (Search effort)

6) My window is always on the 2nd 3.Q 2008 and once lay. It has HDV almost 2 years to European format, even of major manufacturers supported.
So what do you want to achieve with your impatience or point?

7) Have I ever purchase of a current of AVCHD parts discouraged. If you really have to be carefully tested, are the reasons you are not missed.

8) The output of (any format) is not a matter of H.264 but the manufacturer of your software is.
... once again to note-taking: H.264 is a bitstream and no en-or decoding!

One has been slightly bring understanding to be able to differentiate what I've missed your request.
Here, everything just described: http://www.lulu.com/content/1094660
About the merits, we need no longer argue that one can a day in HD and watch television with the search function here.
I consider myself in this matter s.die provable facts, as described and not s.subjektive observations, their causes can be as individual as the users themselves
Also my experience with H.264 are described in detail.

Otherwise, who prevents you from the system not to use?
If you're happy with HDV .... prima!
If you like the slightly was too impersonal, it is because that I have with "unknowns" who are unable to speak openly and otherwise occur only anonymous manner.








Antwort von WoWu:

"Anonymous" wrote:
.... the network with high data rate of the H.264 files do not clearly come .....


Maybe it escaped your attention so that the data rates of up to 50% lower than other comparable procedures (and / or qualities) are.



Antwort von wolfgang:

"Anonymous" wrote:

Describe it out to a working configuration or AVCHD h264 AVC AAC incl material without IF and BUT Intermediatlösung pronounced as to be able to process. Say I want the story just as spartan cut solution see (hard cut, and CF w.Aperture max., Color correction (Collormatch)) OTonschnitt incl.


"Anonymous" wrote:
I think it's important it be noted that at least for AVCHD hardware requirement on the part of the PC are quite happig, my laptop CoreDuo with 1.83 GHz x 2 with Pinnacle nity is not smooth cut me a default action in consequence of this is that my laptop is a 1 / 2 year old is back with the loss and must sell at least

...
If you think the Camera's s.500 euros to get you and you then cut and display at least since 6 fach must spend, I find that on any new purchases for an instance, the consequences to any instance should be pointed out, this In my case, synonymous nor I have the MM player in the network with high data rate of the H.264 files are not clear and I have to come synonymous nor a suitable place and need to buy.


These are two very tyische statements, which fairly well the current situation with AVCHD devices describe. Indeed, we have in the PC world so far only Pinnacle Studio 11 + and Vegas 8, which "native" AVCHD material in the timeline and set halfway sensible editing. Edius or VdL can theoretically synonymous, but the preview capabilities are quite limited unchanged - if not for Intermediate Codec converts.

But with these two solutions is a halfway reasonable AVCHD editing possible - at a sufficiently fast PC like Quad, failing even to 2-core systems (but you can almost no longer recommended for AVCHD natively). And it almost certainly synonymous color, but the preview capabilities are synonymous on a quad but clearly limited than that of HDV or DV.

Therefore, the intermediate solutions is still a good choice if you want to edit AVCHD - above all the solutions of Canopus with the Canopus HQ codec, or if necessary synonymous solutions of Cineform, or synonymous with VdL mpeg2 as "Intermediate" (limited, what the number of possible generations rendering is concerned, but doable).

And the action in the 2nd Above statement is, unfortunately, very typical: always fall back on the user enters AVCHD devices, make only in hindsight find that they now have a camcorder, but do not stop clever cut can. One can only advise against it - and try, the people with information to provide. But if someone does not find in the forums, and only in various markets to buy - then it could be that he or she is holding fall purely as synonymous.

More than practical Kaufberatung like this one
http://www.videotreffpunkt.com/thread.php?threadid=4686

into the net to make, we can not stop doing.



Antwort von WoWu:

Hello Wolfgang
.. Greetings to Vienna ...
Your summary makes it pretty much.
We still do not live in the "AVC-clover" ... has never been synonymous claims and the industry still has a full line manner. This can really not that difficult to understand.
But the heist is not just that everything new is synonymous is equally bad ... quite the contrary. So far we have come to always be a new step forward. From the S / W on Color TV, for HD and of VHS to DV to HDV and yes, perhaps soon for real synonymous and 1920, one day at UHD.
We still have a little patience ...

Happy Christmas to Vienna ....
(I miss the skiing here, incidentally).



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

Quote:
We still have a little patience ...


3-5 years ...



Antwort von WoWu:

Until then, would the camcorder manufacturer Infineon and the bust of this world but ... that is probably more wishful thinking ..



Antwort von redmkiv:

First, sorry for the forgotten login
I am / was the anonymous writer regarding hardware.
Perhaps it is wrong rübergekommen me was the thing of which I s.klar beginning a new Powerful Calculator need the full HD TV, I had long since home theater fan
I just wanted to point out the "cheap" Camera quite decent follow-up costs likely to entail.
I'm with the Camera and the recording quality good, but I am only synonymous hobby / amateur filmmaker, and cut little.



Antwort von wolfgang:

And here is the point exactly, that you

- In the case of AVCHD content but should use the Quad
- In the case of HDV, even with a loose Duocore anymore.

The prices are no longer the huge difference, it's only stupid if relatively short time until one Duocore bought. For the Duocore invest halt ideally in Canopus Neo, and hesitate on the matter from Intermediate codecs. Would I personally even synonymous with the quad to make.

All other investments - in full HDTV or HD-Ready in Blu-Ray authoring software and Blu Ray burners and Blu Ray player, both in the case of HDV as synonymous in the case on an AVCHD to. Although there are cheaper solutions synonymous always find out if you want. So you can take around the still quite expensive Blu Ray player / burner synonymous to other HD-capable devices go - such as in the Xoro HSD 8500, the HD mpeg2, DivX HD, HD-wmv perfectly clean plays - for 150 euros for Karstadt is available.

Really expensive, the thing if you also cineast is still synonymous and the HD sound formats Purchase Of Blu-Ray discs will have - such as True HD. Then keep one's time only a few expensive Blu Ray player, and even more expensive A / V receiver. Only then can no longer blame the Videofilmerei - the stems so the more cinematic aspect. Apart from that, so far synonymous priced higher, standard NLEs eh up only 5.1 encoder interface (like Vegas 8, Adobe CS3 can encode, but supports my knowledge, not even AC3 5.1 sound on Blu Ray discs, however, Vegas 8 already).

It's about an even more expensive Blu Ray burner temporarily save when some AVCHD DVDs (BDMV structure to normal DVDs) erstelt - such as with the Ulead Movie distillery plus 6 + HD Pack. Such BDMV discs are roughly synonymous on the PS3 and some Blu Ray players.

What you need fairly quickly in order to benefit from the high Resolutionzu come, it's an HD-capable player, be it in case a minimal HD-Ready, or a full-HDTV, or a corresponding projector.



Antwort von WoWu:

@ Wolfgang

That was one of the best summaries of buyers view (user-), which I have long read.
I know that you are not simply technological leaps accomplished through Schalterumlegen and that things, no preference whether or Cam Comp. Money really cost that not everyone is so relaxed times in the pocket. That is why I find synonymous helpful critical tests.
On the other Page makes it not only fun to participate s.technischen progress, but synonymous sense.
That is why I personally think so synonymous that these "golden" way should try to find. For me, he just made these two decisions: The knowledge about what I buy and knowledge, as I an economically sensible solution right.
I find your article very good, it solutions for new approaches opens.
I can only make a contribution from her theoretical base and provide a bridge to information sources, which the user otherwise not available.
Because I'm the multitude s.NLE 's different and do not use the calculator. (and synonymous'm glad it does not need to) is my contribution as very limited.
If the knowledge of the subject now with such a balanced application of paired recommendation, which I incidentally is very important and helpful to find, the result is probably a good overall picture.

In the sense
nice weekend



Antwort von redmkiv:

I have now as a player, the PS3 with a Linux operating system purchased, they can be synonymous excellent media player, she has synonymous Wlan connection.
The Blue Ray picture quality does not need to hide behind Standaloneplayern, the 40GB version should be less than 400 euros to get, a retrofit of a larger FP is no problem.

Thomas








Antwort von Bruno Peter:

Also PS3 ... Q6600 and a PC ... PPCS3/Pi-S11 Pros and Pros Ultimate/FB6 with HD-Pack ...

Since 1 October 2007 is the final issue of my HD videos in H.264 AVC:

- As Festplattenfile in PS3
- As an AVCHD disc for the Bluray player in PS3

A BD-Writer's worth just yet for me because of the high purchase price and because of the expensive disk. Moreover, the image quality is not better at the same data as in the case of an AVCHD DVD. Good, with a real BD might be a more complicated authoring by Encore CS3 organize myself enough at the moment but a simple authoring chapters.

The thing is running around ... now, with no preference whether HDV or AVCHD input ...



Antwort von Videophreak:

"WoWu" wrote:

I know that you are not simply technological leaps accomplished through Schalterumlegen and that things, no preference whether or Cam Comp. Money really cost that not everyone is so relaxed times in the pocket.


This agrees well! Because for many people it is quite a financial effort, synonymous for me. Nevertheless, I want the new technology and their quality can not renounce. As a "standard 08-15 Client" in the consumer area, I end with a wine and one eye laughing s.einer FX7 over. And since I am not the actual format whether it is HDV, Standard Definition, AVCHD and Panasonic P2 of is, but the usability of the devices. Because I hate nothing more than a video camera to an everything (and the grotto synonymous nor bad, especially in critical situations in which we as a hobby and amateur filmmakers synonymous very quickly and very often can come ...) - I read very much in this forum and wonder more often about how the opinions of individual users apart and the worst "camp" arise. - Technology is a strong driving force because it supports one's own creativity, which is undisputed. But I can with an old Sony Hi8 of Canon synonymous Or a really cool video to make. Although it has not 1080i ... pfff ... and na? Ergo, it is really of secondary importance, such as super and how great a CameraLink dissolves or not? All of the devices of the current "collection" in the sky lifted or deuced will have one thing in common: just as long as they do not cost upwards s.3500 euro, they are supermühsam to operate. A Focus - Ring zb can surely not be a problem that already existed in a CCD TR705e ... And I LOVE buttons! For each one "fart" in the menu takes time to rise and nerves. Today I have previously mentioned in the often difficult situations such as emerging with one finger (which, no preference how often you wash your hands, leaving grease stains ...) on the touch-screen typing, so that Cam knows what I want to have sharp ... and that helps no super-ulitmativ-I-believe-everything-set STEADYSHOT - the touch on the display can be seen in the telemedicine field, no preference on which stand the "kraxn" is mounted. - All that we are amateur and amateur filmmakers mention must compromise because, as Wolfgang rightly said, one switch can not easily turn. I have a 290er of synonymous Sony (HDD-Cam) daheim whose picture I greatly appreciate, synonymous when it is outdated MPEG2. Never mind! The videos are good! Because the content is good. (at least for me. * gg *)

"WoWu" wrote:

That is why I personally think so synonymous that these "golden" way should try to find.


I agree as well. This golden path, each for himself can be found. In my case is that I need a CameraLink, the bridge of the old world (SD) to the new (HD) suggests. And since I am now depends not on s.Details like "is really synonymous Camera FullHD?" - Which is synonymous a definition thing. I had the SX5 in his hand and was from the first moment in the thing verknallt. It offers SD and HD, it is synonymous likes foreign accessories, she has a VIEWFINDER (!!!!!!), which is synonymous even more of a rarity in today's camcorder-world, the revised image Stabilization is so good that I am in full telephoto hardly have blurred, it has beautiful colors (okay this is subjective, ...), and I can with the rest of HD neighborhood of time. Because when it comes to something in HD to film, then this camera gives me the opportunity. When I then cut in the end, it is me in my financial situation, where my 900 euros for the SX5 been hurt, no sincere preference. Because some DVDs to the HD material for subsequent cutting to preserve my bar all times ...




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