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Bitte um Tipps - welcher Camcorder ??

Asking for tips - which camcorder?



Frage von holgaaar:
Juli 2008

Hello.

My current camcorder is a SonyDCR-TRV340E PAL.

This I have been nearly 8 years, and because my shots are consistently professional, I ask you today to hints of what a good, but are affordable camcorder.

Here are the criteria that I look at my new unit of hope:

1.
The Picture-/Aufnahmequalität should be synonymous in darker areas as well as possible.
I realize that - if it is too dark - just one additional lighting really noticeable quality improvement.
However, I do not speak of an almost stockdunklen room, only in the candlelight shimmers.
Example of my "needs" a church. More space and sometimes a little duster.

My current Sonytendiert in such environment, a lightweight "trickling" play.
You certainly know what I mean.

When it comes to modern cameras, something like a metric, such as ISO for photos, I would be about tips with respect to such unit of measure or number very grateful.

2.
The camcorder should have a "discreet taxable" zoom feature.
What I mean by that, I can again s.besten with my "old" Sonyveranschaulichen:

If I use the zoom slider until it is hit, the camera zooms quickly.
But this is usually undesirable. A slow zoom in or zoom-path MUST be possible without any problems.
The problem with my Sonyist that the area between the slider and slow blitzschnellem zooming, really small is minimal! When the right position I've found I s.der the controller for a specific zoom speed must hold, I need only about half a millimeter slip and already filmed, the picture suddenly proverbial lightning fast to me zugeflogen. The nerves, and vermasselt especially important shots that you can not repeat, for example, a wedding or similar.
As I result of this flaw of Sony, when zooming try, if possible with a finger firmly on the housing to press the lever as sensitively as possible to be able to slide, the housing knarzt sometimes. This is quiet, but since the Micro so well integrated in the housing is located, are the Knarzer in the filmed material, unfortunately, quite clearly be heard.

Instead of popel, tiny shift knob, would be perhaps a toggle switch or the like useful.

3.
Memory card or mini-DV?
The Digital-8-format my Sonyist so of snow yesterday.
Commonplace at the moment are either mini-DV tapes or SD cards.

Basically, I have nothing against cassette technology - I have been synonymous for years with the Digital-8 Sony I'm satisfied and it is still synonymous.

However, there is a criterion that I'm very s.Mini DV doubt it:
The tape apparently normal maximum length of 60 minutes. In Long Play mode, 90 minutes, but this I will avoid, because it supposedly so the quality suffers a bit.

Basically yes, it would be no preference when to change the cartridge. However, I must be possible to just as a church fair, with easy-running Let the camcorder in full length on a tape to get. Firstly, I would go through the tape with a short pause the shooting to the other, I must not, during a Mass, s.meiner Camera rumknattern.

Second possibility, SD Card.
This I do not know much about my two main questions:

Firstly, how much film length - in the best quality - you get on a card (already clearly depends of size of the cards, but I would like a clue: x minutes circa. X gigabytes or similar).

And secondly, is this medium, with a camcorder, reliable and high quality, "runs" as a card in the device stable?

4.
The camcorder should be as quiet perform his duties.
Again, I must as a negative example Sonyins my game, which is not just deafening, but unfortunately still clearly audible hum of itself. (By the Way, I want the Sony Not bad, but now after almost 8 years in which they performed well for me is, it suffers halt - legitimately - synonymous already slow s.Altersschwäche. That's why i want



Antwort von B.DeKid:

Gude

At the top of the bar camcorder Click Comparison

Now in the following list of select models

Canon
HF10
HF100

Sony
HDR SR 10E
HDR SR 11E
HDR SR 12E

Results / models per Page 5, on

(You could of course be still other, such as those of you choose your camcorder / show leave)

Now you compare yourself a little and ask you for a favorite clear.
Then you reported us what you've chosen and we go into detail.

Is not the idea?

.......................

Advance

Via Flash Memory recording cameras are obviously Leissen what the operation does not angeht.Weil cassette tape reels to be rotated.

How much goes to a storage depends on the format (codec) and the resulting amount of data throughput per second. It can however, with today's maps of about 100 Euro class, the double s.FilmDauer be achieved than with the Mini Dv or HI 8 of the case is / was.

An ISO value for DV film is not yet known to me. Think by a factor of digital video but not synonymous with / effect of ISO / talk can be, but I am sure that the chip of the picture provides a certain "ISO" has value (emulated). Generally one can say that the greater the chip is the better is his "Low Light" behavior.
In this play, but added: Focal; Lens diameter and Belichtungsazeit a role.

Does the Camera an ext. Micro Connector / footwear and accessories (in approximately with the hot shoe on a camera to compare)
Then you can for relatively little money to buy good additional microphones.
Rhode Products Company are very happy to recommend.
The "Windfell" nil yes in a church, I suppose at times ;-)

The concept concerning the zoom button you describe is called synonymous ZoomWippe. Here you'll find here on the forum always lively discussions. The problem addressed is what you so well known, but mostly for reasons of cost of developer companies in this price segment is not really resolved.

IMPORTANT

The recording on flash brings you the AVCHD codec into the house, ie the film material must be through his Kompremierung on newer computers cut / edited. Not all SoftwearHersteller already support this codec. This will, however, when the new versions have done.

Alla times now you can draw comparisons, but dead before take off to Canon's HF series that currently has the edge. ;-)

MfG
B. DeKid

PS.
When your partner with the Text'es
Quote:
"...... as firmly with the finger on the casing to press the lever as sensitively as possible to be able to slide, the housing knarzt sometimes "


Since then I have to laugh; D ..... Not the Camera hurt, they are all not designed and therefore tend to "Knarzen" ;-) The last ounce of quality squeezes it differently from you ;-) herraus



Antwort von Markus:

"holgaaar" wrote:
2. The camcorder should have a "discreet taxable" zoom feature.

Zoomwippen the terms of their size s.Nanotechnologie remember, are simply not made for use in On. A camcorder with Lanc port could be controlled by Tripod and are as synonymous, there are controls in which the zoom speed can be limited. This can be very finely controlled, but cost a Lanc control quickly ¬ 200 or more.

"holgaaar" wrote:
However, there is a criterion that I'm very s.Mini DV doubt it: The seemingly normal maximum tape length of 60 minutes.

It is synonymous with MiniDV tapes run 80 minutes in Standard Play (SP).

"holgaaar" wrote:
However, I must be possible to just as a church fair, with easy-running Let the camcorder in full length on a tape to get.

Full-DV would be optimal (but contrary to the targeted price range). With a 184er DVCAM cassette is fed such a camcorder whole by 4 hours.

"holgaaar" wrote:
4. ... which is not just deafening, but unfortunately still clearly audible hum of itself.

It reads as if you had the sound so far only with the built-up Microphone. Is clear that all the body so synonymous recorded sound.

More info:
Sound from the internal Micro ...?! (and there links)








Antwort von Daigoro:

"holgaaar" wrote:

However, there is a criterion that I'm very s.Mini DV doubt it:
The tape apparently normal maximum length of 60 minutes. In Long Play mode, 90 minutes, but this I will avoid, because it supposedly so the quality suffers a bit.


I have in 4 years no quality deterioration through long play seen. No Dropped Frames, nix.
The problem with HDV is that at least my Sony HDV with no LP offers.

But - the 60 minutes maximum recording length are at least 55 minutes too much for a setting. If you have someone brutal 60 minutes from a perspective completely filmed in front of the bib bang, sleeps in the best case, at worst, he runs away screaming (the hat was of the torture scene in Clockwork Orange).

One should at events with 2 cameras actually work, if you have a regular film wants to deliver - for the Complete 1NE, one for the sections between Totalenbil aufzulockern boring.
This is obviously unrealistic for the hobby user.
Nevertheless, you should not synonymous succumb to the temptation of the film from a single 60-240 minutes to recording, so you have to break one way or another and in time can be synonymous, the tape (or position) switch.

If you do not know where you can make the pauses, there is always the possibility of a laptop or computer via FireWire adapter and live capturn what the hard drive made.



Antwort von Axel:

To "Long Play":
In a one-man filmmaker wedding blessing in the foreseeable consists of the ritual. Before the actual Jawort is sung again schröcklich. This is the time to change the cassette, synonymous if you have ten minutes are out. None yet has insisted the whole show to perpetuate, these can be profitably reduced to 20 minutes, especially if one was mobile (Monopod). In a church is the minimum an external directional mic, the room acoustics is grottig enough - for the aforementioned camera Solisten synonymous, it is unfortunately often the maximum. As a head light is neither suffered much focus would be in this case, the camera actually light strong. Without hesitation called SonyVX since 2000/2100, which one gets used on the prices but I am no longer up to date. There are doomsday days in church shooting with chart-like slits instead of windows, where the priest has his crib no longer useful, let alone anything else than Gainflocken tape comes up. And if the photographer flashes,'s looks like the storm-Flak Führerbunker. This is the damnation of.



Antwort von holgaaar:

[quote = "Daigoro"]
"holgaaar" wrote:

But - the 60 minutes maximum recording length are at least 55 minutes too much for a setting. If you have someone brutal 60 minutes from a perspective completely filmed in front of the bib bang, sleeps in the best case, at worst, he runs away screaming ...

Nevertheless, you should not synonymous succumb to the temptation of the film from a single 60-240 minutes to recording, so you have to break one way or another and in time can be synonymous, the tape (or position) switch.

If you do not know where you can make the pauses, there is always the possibility of a laptop or computer via FireWire adapter and live capturn what the hard drive made.


... I film for almost 8 years and knows what I am talking about when and how often should I cut or have a good reason, the camera through the entire length of the church to run.
Of course I cut out all together, and the church takes s.Ende perhaps grade times 15 minutes on the finished film - if at all. And cut s.PC not s.Button camera.

Furthermore, movies I do not have the full 60 minutes from one perspective, but Schwenke between bride and groom, pastor, guests, choir, organ, etc.

But it is essential to the whole Church s.Stück incorporated. Especially the "schröckliche" Singing in front of the Yes-word - everything must be with it. Many bridal couples spend a lot of money to make the gospel choir, the trumpet soloist or AveMaria resound to leave. And often there are songs with a personal value for the bride and groom. And when it's "only" this is good, it afterwards as an audio track to extract ...

Sliced, the whole thing then as I said anyway.

Let's not about individual capture methods philosophize, but to the original question.

Nevertheless, I thank s.dieser body naturally erstmal all who responded to my posting have.
The one or the other answer could I have rauspicken.

Many greetings

holgaaar



Antwort von Bernd E.:

"holgaaar" wrote:
... it is essential that the whole church s.Stück record ... And when it's "only" this is good, it afterwards as an audio track to extract ...

I film weddings only extremely rarely (so far a dozen and only with 60-minute tapes), but I solve this problem quite differently: Within this hour there are always a few moments, where you can change the tape without a major Picture to lose. The sound, however, fully available, because I did separate record of the Camera. Perhaps the separate audio recording so synonymous is a way for you?

Gruß Bernd E.



Antwort von Daigoro:

"holgaaar" wrote:

Let's not about individual capture methods philosophise, ..


I do not philosophize.
These are all practical considerations to improve the workflow.

In workflows thinking makes many decisions on sound and much easier than that for parts an 'optimal' solution to seek, with the rest of the process together.



Antwort von JakobAG:

If you are on the recording time worth much lay buy you a HDD (hard drive) camcorder, which have good models to host memory 5h!

Spares you the annoying, bulky laptop mitzuschleppen, with which you then anyway as good as're unable to move.

Good models are available in a price range just over ¬ 1000 of JVC or Canon

lgJAK



Antwort von Daigoro:

"JakobAG" wrote:
If you are on the recording time worth much lay buy you a HDD (hard drive) camcorder, which have good models to host memory 5h!

Spares you the annoying, bulky laptop mitzuschleppen, with which you then anyway as good as're unable to move.

Good models are available in a price range just over ¬ 1000 of JVC or Canon

lgJAK


That said I with 'workflow'.
If the hard drive is full (what can happen when one is filming the whole day), you can not just switch. Hence, even in addition to the SD / MemStickPro quality cards in full can begin (again not all of what can - and some are not in full quality).

And the JVCs grad (at least the older models - the new I could not) are notorious for a very special record format that is not natively supported editing program and the first must be converted (with JVC programs).

The laptop is naturally mitzuschleppen rather uncomfortable (with the synonymous None 4 pounds 19 "device must be - a small, lightweight Subnotebook offers Capturn enough resources), but offers some advantages such as the extra Sound again with a high quality Micro can record, like a large preview monitor to have the same movies on the hard drive and like to have a 'quick and dirty' DVD of the day s.Ende ever ready to make.
Should we stop to weigh everything.



Antwort von holgaaar:

"Bernd E." wrote:
Perhaps the separate audio recording so synonymous is a way for you?


That would be a way synonymous, synonymous, I have drangedacht.

Now I mitgekriegt that it is still 80 minutes tapes for Mini-DV, so that the problem should really be done.

Thanks again for the tips!

Greetz

holgaaar



Antwort von Axel:

"holgaaar" wrote:
Now I mitgekriegt that it is still 80 minutes tapes for Mini-DV, so that the problem should really be done.
Everybody does it, as he plans what Daigoro the "workflow" was called. My little flapsigen comments so please take as seriously as they deserve it (do not). 16:9 For the story a little limiting for my VX2000 Recommendation: The least-DV camcorders have "true" 16:9, but in this case now with "real" number of pixels on the chip meant to be. Unfortunately, the DV-Cam Camcorder Comparison Slashcam, but of the price range you mentioned is there any Panasonic Dingens 500, which has to my knowledge (as is the speech of 800,000 pixels). Otherwise, any HD-Cam, whether HDV or AVCHD, a "true" 16:9 Cam and virtually without exception, even DV Cams a higher price category in the superior image quality (let's leave any Aiptek exotics with fix-focus plastic lens outside before), that is better seen as DV cams. About the light, you can but then in the camcorder-comparison information.








Antwort von Jogi:

"holgaaar" wrote:

However, there is a criterion that I'm very s.Mini DV doubt it:
The tape apparently normal maximum length of 60 minutes. In Long Play mode, 90 minutes, but this I will avoid, because it supposedly so the quality suffers a bit.
Greeting
holgaaar

In the digital recording method, there is no long play. The only analogues gabs CAMs.



Antwort von K.-D. Schmidt:

Quote:
In the digital recording method, there is no long play. The only analogues gabs CAMs.

Quote:
The recording on flash brings you the AVCHD codec to your home

If ye do not err!

Greeting
KDS



Antwort von Axel:

"Jogi" wrote:
In the digital recording method, there is no long play. The only analogues gabs CAMs.
Nonsense, surely there are long play. Now again, but with lower quality, because with a lower data rate. Also nonsense, and thus data rate of DV quality remain the same. Theoretically, increasing the risk of Bildaussetzern because the tape is running slower, it's in is the manuals. If one's right mind, is synonymous not logical: If a mistake on the coil coating, the digitally by a somewhat higher playback speed hardly "skipped".



Antwort von Markus:

"Axel" wrote:
If a mistake on the coil coating, the digitally by a somewhat higher playback speed hardly "skipped".

But exactly what happens then. An extreme example can illustrate this well:

If a tape to a length of 1 mm is completely unreadable and the recording speed of 1 mm / s, then missing a second of any data. The error gets no more out. If a tape on the other hand, with 1 m / s, then the data loss is only 1 / 1000 s in short, is not next to, or can be fully reconstructed.

For DV / SP vs. LP is the difference of course is not as serious as in the example above, but in the event of a case a lower density (higher = Recording-/Wiedergabegeschwindigkeit) beside the probability for the occurrence of an apparent error synonymous whose magnitude (intensity and duration) influence.




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