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Neukauf HDV: Canon HV20 oder Sony HC7?

Buying HDV: Canon HV20 or SonyHC7?



Frage von Addie:
April 2007

Good evening,

After I thank you very helpful and I have been informed of the general tenor was, for my purposes HDV camera to purchase, I have decided that now synonymous actually taken.

Now I am really just a question: what? I liebäugle with the two aforementioned models. Because there are certainly people, one of the cameras has, I would like to know how happy you are.

Actually ¬ 1000 will be my limit and the price - as unfortunately it is - a very high priority. Therefore, this point clear to Canon, since they already in the network for ¬ 950 to acquire. But money is not everything we know now ;-) - the problem is that the Canon HV-20 is still quite young and therefore little test reports or experience, or?

I've the two camera types miser when entered, because of the article where buyers usually with stars will be assessed. Here comes the Canon better off (only one star deduction for the support, for all other categories full 5 stars) than the Sony, however, such reviews should not overestimate synonymous.

Time of any personal touch apart: what points objectively speak for one or another model? I'm in the technical specifications will not know, I've just read that the HV20 is this 25p mode offers - but what exactly does this mean for buyers? Is the 25 frames per second? And this "i" beduetet fields? How do about 25 frames per second, because in comparison to 25 fields from a film? Previously, I had MiniDV halt, as the distinguished because in Comparison to?

And then I had this 1 / 25 sec recording read. That I do not quite understand, I know only from the photograph as exposure time, then the cap will remain at 1 / 25 seconds open to expose the film and then closes again - but at the Camera but is constantly exposed to the shooting?

Well, these are separate issues but again, I really wanted just a little help for the purchase decision ... ;-)



Antwort von znieh:

1. I would both cams in hand and test how they "fit". The handling is extremely important.

2. You will be here in the forum Sony fans Canon fans will find us whether the subject can differentiate?

3. What customer service is concerned: I had 3 of DV Canon, two of which had once repair. I have the equipment in person after Willich to Central Europe to the customer service market (40km away). Rapid processing and quick easy repair.

4. Sony Customer Service: Seinetwegen I changed to Canon. The quality and customer-friendly but may have changed.

5. Canon disadvantage: 1 year factory warranty, the rest is for the seller. As the Sonygeregelt, I do not know.

6. Make a checklist of what you need, forgive multiplication points for important things and then you will have an outcome (handling test is not forgotten).

7. Personally, I am synonymous decide for a Canon (HV10), but not because I am a Canon fan (I would prefer to buy Panasonic), but because I want an optical stabilizer (the HC7 synonymous one?), And because I Touch Screen does not like, but direct access to manual features. From the image quality since you can both accept.



Antwort von dvcut:

The Canon HV20 is since Friday in small quantities, ie a real assessment of users will take some days. When you purchase the Internet should always be synonymous to an original manual and warranty card ensured.








Antwort von Bruno Peter:

Quote:
Now I am really just a question: what?


Who according to available information, many still can not decide which camcorder to buy both ...



Antwort von Addie:

> Who according to many available information is always
> Still can not decide which camcorder to buy both ...

;-) The is'n big idea, I would have even synonymous drauf come!

> 1 I would both cams in hand and test
> How they "fit". The handling is extremely important.

Yes clearly, definitely. "Unseen" with security, I will not buy! I have to look at the Saturn SonyHC5 (I think) in the hand had the HC7 because they had not, she was already quite good in the hand - but the touch screen is not my thing. Der hat mich schon s.einer older Sony MiniDV annoyed by a friend. He thinks it is good. It's a matter of taste.

> [...] But because I want an optical stabilizer (the HC7 synonymous one?)

Yes, she has.

> The Canon HV20 is since Friday in small quantities shipped,
> Ie, a real assessment of users is still a few days
> Time.

Since I am very curious thing! However, I ask myself: where did the users who already have one, which will come from?

> When Internet purchase should always be synonymous to an original manual and
> A warranty card ensured.

Oja, good reference, thank you! Or there are synonymous always an indication of gray, you should at Panasonic for example, ensure that even the "E" or "EC" stands s.Ende, as far as I know. There's something for Canon or Sonysynonymous?

Oh yes, and a still: someone threw here in the forum the question of whether the editing programs with the 25p mode would be clear as Canon yes "its own standard" or something like that. Do you know what with the standard is meant?



Antwort von streetbiker:

where are there because the HV20 has to buy?
I have found no shop in which the camera is available.



Antwort von Jan:

Hello,

on the roadshow, I had the camera in his hand:

Canon HV20-25p-with-movie-and-look-modi -

I would like the models but rather on the spot test, an accurate judgment.

In Munich gabs goods yet, maybe tomorrow.

In the equipment, they are relatively similar, the super slow motion & Lanc (Sony) and 25 P & AV In (Canon) are so serious differences, optical stabilizer, Micro & Kopfh, man. Tonaussteuerung, HDMI, color bars, zebra have Both.

The Canon is missing but almost 4 mm focal (40 to 43.6 mm) even pros at Sony.

VG
Jan



Antwort von AkaAlias:

Actually I am looking for info on cutting programs HV20. Since I already am.

Got my HV20 today of Still Image Mundus delivered. German original German product with warranty card and instructions.
Additional spare battery and charger were as synonymous.

Regards

Sven



Antwort von Jan:

I got it yesterday synonymous and get one-Lowlighttest made:

HV 20 vs. HC 7

In the SW I do not perused (and Still Image Additional SW), I did it for reasons of time with a MacBook with I move HD geschnitten.

Achso completely forget I Move HD has no problems with the 25 P mode.

VG
Jan



Antwort von Addie:

Super interesting!
Since my election will probably fall on the HV20 - the price is crucial. When dealer in Cologne, it is for 1099 EUR (the HC7 1299, -). When there's Technikdirekt.de it even for 935 EUR, with a year warranty of Canon directly, two years from the Shop ('ve asked).
This means of course I'll only watch live ...



Antwort von jonas_kl:

Did you HV20 yesterday and am just thrilled. In Bad Light absolutely 1A. The rest I still try. For 999 Euro with replacement battery www.foto-mundus.de 2 weeks ago ordered by phone. German virgin.

Gruss s.die HDVer.

Siggi



Antwort von Tubor:

Hi:)

Schwanke I still in my buying decision between the Canon H10 and H20.
The Camera is a long-term video project. It aims particularly at junctions with scooters and motorcycles to be, of course, where the size of the HV10 would be ideal.
Quenching does me, however, the poor low-light feature, because s.and to be synonymous in rooms or in bad weather will be rotated.

Therefore my question s.diejenigen the HV20 already had in their hands:

Where the HV20 in low light auto better images than the HV10, or do you only have a special menu, so that better performance comes?

The question for me is important because the camera for the video project s.viele people borrowed to be little or no experience in dealing with camcorders and have the "Special Settings" for Lowlight probably "would not manage or do not want to had ...








Antwort von jonas_kl:

"Tubor" wrote:
Hi:)
The Camera is a long-term video project. It aims particularly at junctions with scooters and motorcycles to be, of course, where the size of the HV10 would be ideal.
The question for me is important because the camera for the video project s.viele people borrowed to be little or no experience in dealing with camcorders and have the "Special Settings" for Lowlight probably "would not manage or do not want to had ...


So when the conditions of use and dissemination of s.leute
without camerfahrung with HDV, it is likely
quite a lot of committee, because HDV is rather what
quiet camera ....
So of the two cams is the HV20 in any case the better choice,
but may be for you a sd-cam pal (gs500/gs320 ...) are better suited.
gruß cj



Antwort von wahlheidi:

Quote:
In Bad Light absolutely 1A.


How do you react?

Check times at which high contrast is doing, because all the details are lost, see http://www.fxsupport.de/21.html (videos of the gas station) ...



Antwort von Addie:

quote]
Check times at which high contrast is doing, because all the details are lost, see http://www.fxsupport.de/21.html (videos of the gas station )...[/ quote]

So I am layman and therefore has no "professional look" like you - but I think the Picture of the gas station pretty well! The HV20 which I like better color performance, the HC7 is the sharpness of this better I think (the illuminated lettering above the door, for example).
I picture me a noisy or HC7 the top right, exactly in the dark anymore?



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

HC7 rauscht much more, much more than, for example HC3 ...
Regarding gas: HV20 go with all details in the petrol station shop lost synonymous for lay clearly visible. But why does the layman this contrast expresses bad deal not?



Antwort von ruessel:

Well, the contrast can HV20 camera menu be set to -1, it is synonymous here, everything is in order in the Picture. Why of course in the basic setting has been somewhat exaggerated and why this point is not sensitive can be set, only Canon knows.



Antwort von Jan:

Just like the love & XH A 1 G 1 - why not get Canon reasonable basic setup going?

VG
Jan



Antwort von Tubor:

@ cj

thx for your reply:)

There should be but the HV10 or Canon HV20 of his.
Have now in various American read reviews that the Lowlight Fähgikeit the HV20 is not dramatically improved to be (except in 24p mode) and that only the software should be changed so that picture is slightly better in low light, so no change in actual optical system was made.

Did someone put it directly compared HV10 udn HV20 in Lowlight? :)

Many greetings



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

Quote:
Well, the contrast can HV20 camera menu be set to -1, it is synonymous here, everything is in order in the Picture.


Can you show the times Wolfgang, it interested me very much.



Antwort von Jan:

Well then, the American Forum for Canon not informed.

Canon Law in the HV 20 on a new CMOS technology, so the processor, the sensor size is a / the same.

Similar to Canon SLRs get any diode missed a micro lens, it gets more light individual pixels, which is better for the Lowlightqualität effect.

I own the HV 10 Interior view - horribly in outdoor running in top form on this is true. Ich glaub ich muss mal 2 images are purely (synonymous wenns my stock images are simple, and Wolfgang's test clearly mature & professional is)

The HV 10 is once again under the HC 7, and the HC 7 Picture at 20 lux yes I linked - completely black & noisy at 1 / 50, f 1.8 18 DB.

VG
Jan








Antwort von Tubor:

Hi Jan:)

the wär super, when you with the pix would make.

Bin echt mittlerwile namely a bit confused about the capabilities of the Bad light HV10 and HV20 are concerned, have a say so and the others say so. Pix could really help there:)

Ps: Yeah, something synonymous the impression that in the American forums, the products generally far less critical eyes than in the German, but now is only my personal impression, you must agree net.



Antwort von Addie:

"Bruno Peter" wrote:
[...] Synonymous for lay clearly visible. But why does the layman this contrast expresses bad deal not?


Because we do not just lay people and professionals! ;-)
So I can only speak for myself: if you as a layman does not know exactly what a close eye on you, ie what exactly are the criteria, the recording is good or bad, then you look at just the Overall impression of the image.

And because this order lengths is better than the Lowlightaufnahmen that I of my Panasonic NV-GS 22 am accustomed, I found it only once good. And I see there is a difference in the detail outlined in the shop - but for me it was not so insanely large for a trained eye Filmmakers are perhaps the worlds!

This (surely synonymous subjective) sense but it is wonderful here in the forum to understand:

> Did you HV20 yesterday and am just thrilled.
> In Bad Light absolutely 1A.

or

> HV 20 is so much stronger,
> And is quite loose, the HC 7 - at least for light slumber.
[...]
> The Canon is very pleased Lowlightkönig Sony
> In reference to the barriers have

and on the other hand, the

> But why does the layperson expresses this bad
> Contrast not cope

Sun, and now tell me why MIR dwarf because everything should be noticed immediately! ;-)
What I'm saying is: who is not intensely with these things and here is continually synonymous of 24p, 25p, 50i, etc. reads, and does not know what this exactly means and how it is affected (I'm still searching) , which is synonymous ever so slightly overlooked. Therefore, in my opinion goes a beginning synonymous for his feeling good picture compared to the same professional would totally reject.

That is exactly when as fine a musician Details / accents, etc. from a song heraushört. Since the layman just says: "If not me!" If he gets it in more detail and it is concentrated hinhört, he remembers what the other speaks. (and even that does not always).

Gruß,



Antwort von Axel:

"Addie" wrote:
Sun, and now tell me why MIR dwarf because everything should be noticed immediately! ;-)


Again and again this harrowing uncertainty about whom to trust? Their own verdict, because I would say. Without the technical specs in detail to assess, this ruling is obviously a bit weak justification.
Synonymous But a miscarriage is not doomsday, because of what Rob Slashcam on the higher price class says:

"rob" wrote:
And again to the spoilsport for all pixel counter "to play: Good movies are not of the cams, but of the people who work with them, done. Was already very often said - is no less true and should not therefore be repeated infinitely often.

Personally I find the top class of the HDV cams so close together in terms of image quality that real selection criteria clearly Handling, Post-Pro workflow, stability, etc. are s.wenigsten and whether Cam 2% more or less sharp features. And these are much more important criteria of nunmal situation situation, a team of team of Project to Project diverse ... Appropriate technology-blow tests the differences in proportions that are not in proportion to the true value of a cam is - the problem is: there is no other objective testing. The best test lab is still a cameraman / woman with a lot of experience. ;-)


is synonymous for the small things. There are no worlds between Son and Can. So buy the camera, which one would love to s.ehesten.



Antwort von fritzele:

Axel,

when your post goes to my heart! Beautifully written - and true!
"A good film is formed in the head!" But admittedly, I have today between HV20 and HC7 decide, I would be hard to do synonymous!

Greeting
Detlev



Antwort von fritzele:

I have the HV20 since saturday and am satisfied as far.
only the size is very used to if you have a vx2000 was accustomed.

I have a few clips on rapidshare.com uploaded to hire someone interested in the quality.
Everything is filmed in the automatic mode with ois at (forgotten from making) and from the tripod and 1080p.
there are no great shots, but only quickly filmed the test.
I did it with Final Cut Pro captured and then exported as a mov hdv50i.

here the link: http://rapidshare.com/files/27488038/Sequenz_1.mov



Antwort von Gnet:

here are a few shots from the hand-garden, and shaky / zuschnelle dolly rides:)

http://rapidshare.com/files/27498597/Sequenz_11.mov

1080p again, ois, it was only weißabgelich by clouds.



Antwort von Gnet:

makes it meaningful in the case of fast movements (sports, etc.) 50i with a HV20 aufzunehemen if the final product only on the pc is playing? 720 25p?
in slow motion, it is probably a beneficial 50 motion stages, but otherwise?



Antwort von Jan:

Hello,

I have my statement a little perspective. The HR 20 is not a better length, the difference is only real weakness in visible light. Had little time a week (working & shooting) and therefore could not constitute pure images, but the shots did s.PC seen.

The reason why I was in business a customer is HV 10 were returned (noisy interior shots) in Comparison to a SonyHi8 was that it was an expensive 3000-4000 DM 1 / 3 "device, with relatively few pixels on the sensor. What a snooze light Picture man with a 3 per CCD 1 / 3 "Camera with only 450,000 pixels per hinbekommen can, yes you can see in the VX 2100 / PD 170th

Now hold 2 million to 1 / 2, 7 "CMOS distributed - Pixelwahn ...
Although the pixels in HDV have been necessary.

The HV 20-25 P mode can be very difficult to explain that you have to see themselves.

All previously visited Modis P (ie, half or zusammengemanschte Canon Modis F) provide for completely different from me. Even with a JVC GR PD 1 I found the picture differently.

Film to another "exotic" look in their recordings have to be a look at the HV 20, and for only slightly more than 1000 ¬. professionals are of course the nichtvorhandenen "combs" of a half value.

Mich nervt it synonymous if users here want to maintain professional standards, without ever with a camera in this class to have filmed. These are the users themselves mercilessly Lenses talk badly (distortion, sharpener losses and the edges in the WW and telephoto) and ¬ 300-700 for the cameras. If a Digibeta filmmaker sells his work, that does it is quite correct. I think it is grossly exaggerated, probably pure Profilierlust. Robs ruling is absolutely correct!

VG
Jan



Antwort von Gnet:

Quote:
The HV 20-25 P mode can be very difficult to explain that you have to see themselves.


Can you find an example in times m2t purely ask?








Antwort von Jan:

Did not test proboscis videos on FX support?

I have little time to film cameras with a different class.
And the trunk is definitely the best example, videos & photos.

VG
Jan



Antwort von Yann:

Hi,
I've synonymous strong interest s.der HV20 ... evt jmd could it of you has the time a recording HDV25P + Cine Mode make. I plan in the summer, a film project and when the picture halfway s.einen 16mm Lock Cam Ranka would be the first choice for me.

Mfg



Antwort von Andreas*S:

Quote:
16mm Lock


You mean those Abgehakt movements in the projection, image blur and poor state?

That would be me but did not like!



Antwort von Yann:

by that I mean a film similar Picture ... Smoother transitions, 24-25 frames, etc. ..
For this reason I have such great interest s.der Cam, because they are the 25P mode, and a Cine mode. Only I would like to see pictures of them like the picture then.

mfg




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