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Canon HX-A1 und Sony DCR-VX 2000E

Canon HX-A1 and SonyDCR VX-2000E



Frage von GOGOL:
Juni 2007

I've recently looked at the Canon Camera HxA1've brought bisjetzt but with the sony DCR-VX 2000E filmed.Bei the comparative of the two cameras I had to note with regret that the Canon when filming in the dark poor quality (rushing). If I am desperate keep the camera, or rather back soll.Was do you give them?



Antwort von Jan:

You have, unfortunately, a compromise.

For high definition needs a good man stop resolution, the 2000s did the same chip size for more than three times as much pixel (450,000) XH A 1 (effective 1.56 million) per 1 / 3 "CCD.

Then it's to be expected that the sensitivity to light, despite recent CCDs not equal good.

For FX 1 FX & 7 you will still be disappointed of the light output, even though the CMOS 's FX 7 for higher gain values only rushing.

I only last a FX 7 and a PD 170 next evening at dawn (17-18 clock) "together is old", the recordings were so far apart despite amplification FX 7, which they could hardly show together.

In the price category will be no more light than the HD Camera XH A 1 G & 1, please - sorry.

VG
Jan



Antwort von smooth-appeal:

Are the old models synonymous with the dynamic range of the better values?








Antwort von Jan:

Synonymous, I would say that if I look at the pictures of PD 170 and FX 7 Together watch - but for Canon XH A 1 be any different - I do not movies with her. A little more drawing is synonymous with the 170th PD

There may be synonymous in the CMOS (FX 7) = usually smaller dynamic range than comparable CCD.

Good XH A 1 works so synonymous with CCD as VX 2000 - since the XH A 1 users to help you. Since the dynamic range but is strongly associated with the pixel noise ratio, one can assume that there synonymous VX has to stay ahead.

Although synonymous in the network of one or the other engineer is convinced that the CMOS sensors are now to stay ahead in dynamic range.

In general, the camera with the larger pixels on the same surface (ie, VX 2000) to stay ahead in dynamic range.

VG
Jan



Antwort von smooth-appeal:

Thank you for your quick reply. The experienced owner A1 are either scarce or does not find its way into my posts.

As you FX7 yes seem to have - are so "broadcast" shots in strong sunshine possible without you the details in the foreground absaufen (Especially Faces)?



Antwort von Jan:

Hello,

I think so, but it is always better even a test.

Even in well-known forums are partially optics praised to the skies, although it is partly of one or the other user as a maximum satisfactory stamped. It's very interesting what the customers for "Test Winner" back into the shop and bring you their test shots show.

I had a small test times from the film Munich Tournament posted here. It was brooding heat & sun, fortunately, was the light side right behind me. In such a situation anyway the ND 2 pure, I think the pictures are quite nice without cutting & machining.

FX 7 Test Film

But I honestly have not the HDR FX 7 on a hard Dynamics test, ie extremely bright and dark "lighted" objects.
I have to make time, if the s.besten PD 170, in the vicinity.

The famous statement that a camera with a better auto pixel noise ratio is always better - is unfortunately not always synonymous
Like Stefan Gross (a famous writer for Canon cameras in images shown here - although Canon sees it differently)





Antwort von smooth-appeal:

Thank you, I will watch the movie once the lahmarschige Windows File Search has found again:)

With the self test I give you a clear right but I do not shop the XHA1 Stock would let because one where I still synonymous with the other relevant models could be tested simultaneously.

Just buy and try, I can not afford.

I'm already on your forward momentum test. Hopefully the experience I have ;-)



Antwort von Jan:

I'll give to me was never the big Tester & comparators. Some go as synonymous extremely fussy to work. If what does not fit, tell ichs but.
At least with the relevant magazines FX 7 has the highest ratings in terms of picture quality get - except for Lowlight. The dynamic range of the FX 7, but actually none of the magazines mentioned.

Since I probably Germany's "Best" "Wolfgang Winne - FXsupport.de" to advance lengths, it is often synonymous if, unfortunately, only the 1000-1500 ¬ class tests.

Times I'll see if next time I make something pure.

VG
Jan



Antwort von ruessel:

Since I already had a lot of HDV cameras in hand, I would have this simple equation: a 3 Chipper has more dynamic picture (contrast)

Except for a weak HDV camera model, there seems to be synonymous to vote.

Meanwhile, however, the downstream image processors and more sophisticated by certain parameters, the camera massively s.Kontrastumfang win the HV20 with the contrast slider is set to -1 as an example ..... However, it is the overall picture somewhat listless and can not contrast with the extent of an XH A1 match.

The XH A1 is currently the best LowLight HDV camcorder, you just need a little order to employ and learn the tricks. Sowas is not in the manual ....

See Comparison FX1 / XHA1 http://www.fxsupport.de/19.html



Antwort von smooth-appeal:

Thanks to you both!

The Lowlightfähigkeiten are not of poor parents. Have your Page is already considered several times and am pleased with the commitment you have all the Page server that Wolfgang.

On the topic of dynamic range I would be especially interested in an example in which a lot of light, such as through a window into a room with normal room lighting mind.

In another forum was the alleged dissolution of the lower rows A1 to the FX7 mentioned. The images come from the übrigends videos of proboscis Page.

http://www.25frames.de/a1vsfx7/a1vsfx7_001.jpg
http://www.25frames.de/a1vsfx7/a1vsfx7_002.jpg
http://www.25frames.de/a1vsfx7/a1vsfx7_003.jpg
http://www.25frames.de/a1vsfx7/a1vsfx7_004.jpg

Especially when the penultimate picture is me the missing drawing in the background s.Gebäude noticed. Picture Even when it seems the Canon is quite faded presentation to offer.

What does the author on this subject? Incorrect setting or really a weakness A1?

I would not annoy you but for me is to purchase a camcorder in this price category not chicken and I would be very happy if we have a little more could discuss ;-)



Antwort von ruessel:

404ERR



Antwort von smooth-appeal:

Thanks for your detailed statement!

What particularly interested me even more is the Aufälligkeit of CAs. If we ensure that there is probably in almost all cameras chromatic Aberationen but it looks as if it was not specifically aimed respects ...

Stinging the CAs of the A1 when you view it penetrating into the eye?

Btw. Have you now found tapes in which the drop out rate is negligible?

Greeting
smooth








Antwort von ruessel:

Yes, there are recordings (such as chromium in the sun) I just would use a heavy heart. It is holding the stabbing Color RED, this reminds me immediately uncomfortable in the eye. But I'm very fussy synonymous ..... but I lack the experience synonymous nor whether this CA in the middle focal lengths synonymous is still as bad (only had almost Indoor rotated). Evil is synonymous, it is not only synonymous but s.Bildrand occurs like in the middle!

The last good Lens in CA, the FX1, that was synonymous but "only" 12 times. The HV20 (10x) is almost as wide in the area until the mid-CA released ......

Meanwhile, I can teach that one Canon HDV cameras only Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ notes, it costs about 5 euros and has made my last 15 hours HDV no problems ... well, so very true it is not synonymous, even missing a few frames s.Startanfang. Perhaps we should totally switch to disk recording ..... whether it fits the Sony part?



Antwort von smooth-appeal:

That speaks strongly against the A1 when the CA so striking are: (
I think I still despair s.meinem purchase projects.

Does the video field synonymous to a way out CAs to be expected?

When does the pictures, for example in Paint Shop Pro, very good.

If you ever lived somewhere with really bad pictures of the A1 CAs Upload you could, I would be very grateful. Then I can better judge whether our fussy at a similar level, or whether I could live with.

Whether the Sony recorder is compatible, I am not sure. I have heard it. Why does not Firestone gates solution? They are priced much more attractive, I think.

Greeting
smooth



Antwort von ruessel:

I think here: http://www.archive.org/download/hdv_a1_fx7/A1_01.mpg is building top s.der CA to find nice ..... even in the center.

Well, between the XH A1 and the FX7 but still some big differences:

Wide = for the FX7 should only come back with gefummelt converter, which is expensive for these large diameter and goes again to the detriment of image quality.

XLR = Tonbuchsen I do not want to miss

LowLight ability = everyone must know what he needs, because I could live with the FX7.

Händling = that everyone else sees

Fire doors has not convinced me yet .... Here was indeed a horror times report on ....



Antwort von Jan:

Now you know why I so appreciate Wolfgang ..... An engineering test & Fuchs halt.

Well no claims but I'm not synonymous, but hold only one year at the Prosumerkameras.

The Canon CA so vulnerable, I would have never thought times. In the FX 7 is nothing struck me.

The optics of the Canon L series are actually through their fluoride and UD glass specially protected against CA and figure errors. Re just advertising?

In the center of the picture you can see the even? Actually a problem in bright / dark contrasts in the Picture.

Yes the Sonyhat automatic picture a bomb, but only when light sleep problem a little, I'm probably with the DSR PD 170 synonymous too spoiled.

The Tonaussteuerung menu (the last), no line in, microphone input but are still a few weak points of the 7th FX

VG
Jan



Antwort von ruessel:

Quote:
The Tonaussteuerung menu (the last), no line in, microphone input but are still a few weak points of the 7th FX


There is still the V1 ... with beautiful Toneingänge XLR ... But wait, let FX1/Z1 the successors to the end of the year! Perhaps then again Sonyin my camera bag.



Antwort von Jan:

Hey since you know so much Wolfgang - have yet nothing of Sonygehört.

Yes Canon is used for the IFA, but as I have previously heard only with Festplattencams (SD + probably synonymous AVCHD). With high probability not HDV model, XH A / G 1 and HV 20, so fairly new.

VG
Jan



Antwort von smooth-appeal:

http://www.archive.org/download/hdv_a1_fx7/A1_01.mpg

I've viewed the video, CA, I could hardly find, at least not as I would call really striking.

Did you maybe wrong with the video?

What I do, however aufgeallen is distorted during the swing, the street lamp (Believe it was a) quite funny and has no clear outline more.

That looks really ugly from. Why is this and can it be bypassed or it is part of the highly praised 25f mode?



Antwort von smooth-appeal:

* * themaausderversenkunghol



Antwort von ruessel:

Sorry .... I read here only sporadically when I have some time and then usually only the themes that are left.

What did you compatriots? PC Screen? With a software player?

If you take the scene to you on a big screen and with a proper m2t drive via HDMI anschaust, you red top CA s.der building edge and recognize through the entire width, a few pixels wide ..... something bothers me now. A FX1 / 7 or HV20 makes no such CA. When it is cloudy, is this meaningful CA disappeared ....

Pans and other stories is another issue here, the XH A1 has no quirks or errors .... usually it is s.verwendeten m2t player and / or the used screen.
On an HD broadcast screen tubes I diverses HDV material via Componente viewed (HC1 material), which is still at a Flatbildschirm as something slimy / schlierig looks HD was on the tube properly. I suspect this has something synonymous with interlaced and the reaction time of an LCD screen to be done. Even a single frame from a faster swing HDV is not "funny".








Antwort von Kollektor:

"trunk" wrote:
..... I just want to 1 meter on my FullHD the best picture quality and I am there with the Canon very closely approached, if one knows how to get around with HDV filming needs.


regardless of the cam:
how to make the (HDV) on your pans fullhd
and
With what do you play the m2t material from?
and
there is (outside of testing) for your
HDV footage Schwenk (eg sports)?
gruß cj



Antwort von ruessel:

So, with pan in my shooting, I expressed sparingly, even more shots. I produce mostly for trade fairs, there are either large plasma / LCD Monitors and / or the picture comes on a beamer, it is in SD resolution.
Pans are in very high resolution problem here may be a "seasick" effect to a synonymous Picture from the hand bothers me a lot more here than in SD, but the personal viewing habits are synonymous, in the movies can I find a hand-held camera synonymous to kot. .....

I myself use in the studio, a Sony Bravia screen, here I sit at the cut usually 60-80 cm from the screen and see 40Zoll everything ;-). In fact, at a closer glance at a swivel light streak / Nachzieheffekte to see, but I have to control via a Bluray with an upcoming action film and is synonymous the problem rather than the video camera. I do play the m2t files from the Tvix 5000 player or HD 8500 Xoro player or playing back on tape and watch on the camera (always via HDMI).



Antwort von Kollektor:

thanks for the explanations.
seekrankeffekt during the swing, I can confirm synonymous.
synonymous as already discussed here:
http://www.videotreffpunkt.com/thread.php?threadid=4158&sid=9500a0dbd92544689770be4ac9d94b81
I have recently taken a number of legally free-moving shots
with both the HC3 sports area (swing) as synonymous with the
autofahren made.
my results so far: in HDV you have a lot of careful recordings,
ie. dynamic sports such as handball / hockey with a lot of camera movement is limited in HDV Film ....
but perhaps there are indeed synonymous here already other experiences.
gruß cj



Antwort von Axel:

As a rookie with the A1 and long-time user, I can VX2000 - although still a little inexperienced - some differences and similarities found:

1. When "i" you need to motion representation with no thoughts on HDV, which may arise (and in my strong reservations against HDV substantiated), if you look at the temporal compression to observe. We can film, how it is used of DV is synonymous sports, and, yes, synonymous with moving camera.

2. For "F" (= "p") you have, especially in pans and camera movement, such as filming with an analog film camera, otherwise all the poorer resolution disrupt movement. From hard to describe aesthetic reasons, use this mode, it offers obvious reasons of compatibility with benefits for your web, for scaling and for compositing.

3. Out of box and in automatic mode, I was initially not so much of the A1, especially in comparison with the Sony. Since the lens is obviously much lichtschwächer pumps Camera quickly gain the added (though not up to 6 dB next notice). First, if you look for numerous situations has its own presets created, you really achieved convincing results. That means, however, that in all these situations an external monitor connected, because the mini-display, you can not judge the subtleties.
It also means that the impact of these presets "in the field" to assess if there is no monitor on hand.

My Personal Conclusion: I hope in two or three weeks so the camera to master every situation in order to cope. I've been checking all the settings according to the nature of a checklist for pilots envisaged - because there is not only presets, but also a number of manual settings (gain, white balance, sound level, the areas for which Zebra is displayed, to name only to name a few) which, if forgotten, a recording can be ruined. So definitely a Camera, in which one can fall in love, but synonymous one in which you fall in love, so that they are to remain faithful. In contrast, the VX2000 the purest snapshot cucumber.



Antwort von Kollektor:

To 1 but I must oppose
gewackel because each is compared to recordings sd
not to bear and with a cam like the a1 (I FX7), one will
the film Shaft was a little off of the spontaneity.
gruß cj

ps. a schnappschuss cucumber (vx2000) but quite synonymous
good shots.



Antwort von smooth-appeal:

Hey, since you need but really do not need to apologize ;-)

Effects on your contribution to my brain angeworfen times and lo and behold, with a different deinterlacer synonymous saw it on the PC screen (tube) in order from again. I got me apparently because of the extension. Mpg thought the material was a (P) is present.

What struck me is synonymous with full 1600 and Resolutionfällt Effect of synonymous with off deinterlacer as good as not to. In windowed mode and on the other hand, already in the 1024's without deinterlacer nothing.

The CA's do I really not so bad. On my 19 "tube I take it as a little disturbing true. Honestly, I think the reddish aberration more pleasant than purple / blue and Co. That may perhaps synonymous s.Motiv are particularly unpleasant, but noticed that I do not really believe.

Is it with the A1 because CA's even worse than this example from the video?

On the subject of Tripod, enough runterkonvertieren not from the "old" sense of spontaneity to obtain again?



Antwort von Axel:

"Anonymous" wrote:
To 1 but I must oppose
gewackel because each is compared to recordings sd
not to bear and with a cam like the a1 (I FX7), one will
the film Shaft was a little off of the spontaneity.
gruß cj


For hand-held camera, there is the Image Stabilization and / or various holding Stabilisierunssysteme as synonymous with DV. I have so wildly through the area direction, as I believe it is useful recordings would never make, and I could no difference to detect DV. No, wait: Wackelei stört on a small device is less than 4:3 on a large 16:9. Has my opinion with nothing to do HDV.

"Anonymous" wrote:
ps. a schnappschuss cucumber (vx2000) but quite respectable recordings synonymous.


The term is infelicitous. I just wanted to say how relatively easy it ran with her, even with manual handling. It is a completely successful DV camera, with which I was very satisfied. I would still contain a DVX 100 exchanged, but the envy could endure. The A1 with the processing, the display and the optics of the DVX, it would be mal ein geiles Teil been. But the HVX is simply beyond my financial means.



Antwort von mauriceg@gmx.de:

"Axel" wrote:

My Personal Conclusion: I hope in two or three weeks so the camera to master every situation in order to cope. I've been checking all the settings according to the nature of a checklist for pilots envisaged - because there is not only presets, but also a number of manual settings (gain, white balance, sound level, the areas for which Zebra is displayed, to name only to name a few) which, if forgotten, a recording can be ruined.


and the most important parameter in the "focus" then flies
HDV with the automatic mode, as on the lcd / viewfinder, the focus
is difficult to judge (unless you still filming) without ...
peaking / tilt raise ect. it is not.
gruß cj




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