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25p erstellen aus 50i (FX1000)

Create 25p from 50i (; FX1000)

Frage von helot88:
Juli 2009

I have recently begun to SonyHDR FX1000. Added to my question, which is placed hopefully correct, for it comes to post production. In the test on this camera here at Slashcam says yes, inter alia, as follows:
Friends of the progressive 25p recording also get their money: The built-in CMOS chips can scan images with 25 frames per second. For compatibility reasons Sonydie converts images (but, unlike Canon) before being stored on the tape in 50i HDV format. On the one hand ensures greater compatibility in cutting programs that do not know the pure 25P-stream, but synonymous for more work if you have the fields back together in the editing program.

Could I perhaps someone among video professionals of you explain what is meant by this. So what do I have a profile (in Adobe Premiere CS4, so I'm working set), so I made this once again get the 50i format 25p produced in the camera format.

And then: How do I add the fields back together? I have perused the book with Premiere CS4 Design of Galileo, but there was not smart come of it.

It is certainly a completely ideotische question, but I only just beginning s.with HDV (and after many years DV).

Thank you ever taken the answers


Antwort von Axel:

I sat next to very often, but never paid particular attention. But the logic helps next one. It is well known, there is no HDV 1080p. That is synonymous why a camera with a progressive working chip that stuff "must be packaged as" 50i. Now there is a preset in Premiere HDV 1080p, no idea whether Project or sequence, or whether there is a difference between the two, but that it must be yes, then ...

EDIT: The question arises quite often, but will give a presentation None. Be so nice.

Antwort von WoWu:

25p images can never 25i Images (; old format will be: 50i) because images are interlaced, in contrast to p-images a different temporal resolution, but only half the spatial resolution (; what one could still produce).
Probably, the tester has with what he has written as synonymous not know quite what he meant, or the whole process is not well understood.
What's more, that the files on the tape does not saved as "Picture" in p or i have, but as a single binary file, in which only the progressive flag is either "true" or "lazy" ...

Antwort von Axel:

In one FinalCut capturet HDV 1080i only as "HDV". Has the camera, trust, or by what principle faulsen synonymous ever recorded, with no line dominance, one must then take the sequence of HDV 1080p, otherwise is, as Werner would say, "here coaster.

Antwort von WoWu:

That does not change the fact that 25p can not be 25i .... unless you invent a way that you will be sure to bring the Nobel Prize.
As cryptic NLE Manufacturer deal then with names, here was of no account.
And that, as quoted, images are stored as 50i is also a rubbish.

Antwort von helot88:

So that's the way it is in the manual:

You can also progressive scan images with a vertical resolution of the 1080 record. Note: The captured images are recorded in the 50i format on tape and converted.

That was then synonymous Relating to the entire manual!

So as I said, it would be interesting to know what I have then converted these images and how accurate the further processes.

And one more question to understand: When I record in 25p mode and that in the fully automatic, the camera provides up to 25 frames. Mauell I can because each x-set any shutter time. ALso very stupid asking: Has the 25p mode, what to do with 1 / 25 second?? Yes but probably rather not? Or?

Moreover, I believe that with the real 25 p or not it all just a software issue. The Z5, the big brother of the FX1000, can finally synonymous record every decent amount format. And that comes from this strange detour without conversion.

Antwort von Axel:

"WoWu" wrote:
And that, as quoted, images are stored as 50i is also a rubbish.

But for the nonsense can neither helot88 yes, I still was. DV Pal was / is known, is also a picture built up of lines, and can be persuaded not synonymous. There are / were, but as with the Canon XL2 or the Panasonic DVX 100 DV progressive by the trick that lower and upper field were simultaneously transferred instead to 1/50tel. There was / is the treatment in the NLE very simple: There was / is the timeline for the checkbox "Field order" (, etc.) and here it was said "none".

"helot88" wrote:
Has the 25p mode, what to do with 1 / 25 second??

Yes, this is an opportune shutter for "p". Test 1/50tel but synonymous. Never shorter.

Antwort von WoWu:

But for the nonsense can neither helot88 yes, I still was.

No, Axel, said synonymous None.
DV Pal was / is known, is also a picture built up of lines, and can be persuaded not synonymous.

PAL: Yes, DV: No!
PAL is an analog transmission method in which every second line is phasengedreht broadcast to eliminate transmission errors.
PAL is nothing more and certainly has nothing to do with any digital transmission.
DV is composed of a, arranged in a matrix pixel array and has a single line. Lines were written by an analog current Elektronemstrahl ". Pixels are addressed in a matrix.
Axel do not finish, something you have ". Such a thing can be scrutinized. Therefore, your statement is not true, because IT has nothing to do with PAL.
DV by the trick that lower and upper field were simultaneously transferred instead to 1/50tel.

Then there were no fields, but Frames segmeneted (; sf).
That can not be so hard to keep, a few concepts and apply them correctly.
@ Helot88
Take off such a signal verquertes times in the timeline and look at the properties at once. Then You can see what it really is for a format, regardless of what advertising mortise Fritzen manuals.

Antwort von pailes:

"WoWu" wrote:
DV is composed of a, arranged in a matrix pixel array and has a single line.

A (; pixels -) matrix, by definition, has rows and columns. Axel has been right with what he says: In a coded frame with two pictures are (temporal displacement and half resolution; fields in each odd / even lines of the frame synonymous "Fields considered). Thus, a 1080i stream can contain progressive still image data, everything you have to do is teach the NLE, that it should interpret a single frame as a full screen instead of the two fields. The Panasonic AG-HMC151E packaged in this manner and way, a 1080p/25 (; (30) Video, which is not Blu-ray or AVCHD-compliant) in a 1080i/50 (, 60)-current.

Antwort von WoWu:

A (; pixels -) matrix, by definition, has rows and columns.

A matrix is (a linear mapping; homomorphism) between two vector spaces.
A row projection comes from a very simple idea at the level of Excel users, to say the once friendly, but nothing with a definition of the matrix do.

And it "segmented frame" there (; PSF), has here denied None.
Would you read my posting to the end, you would not have escaped synonymous.
To speak in the context of television lines, moreover, in conjunction with the PAL, however, points to everything else out as an X, Y, ... Matrix.
PAL and DV to remain an opposition and PAL in the digital environment has not lost .... as synonymous helps no explanation of what a frame is segmented, since it offers synonymous not explain what this has to do with PAL DV to and who else, known masses sf applies.
Completely aside from that there is no such "arrangement" is in binary file.
Maybe it's synonymous escaped your attention that this constant of 1080 50i is mentioned .... And that's just a defined format.
Your examples show dahingegen correct dimensions 25 PSF from.
Here is now the balancing act of redefinition of 25i (; old: 50i) occurred at 25 psf.
If it had been immediately labeled correctly, (;) just synonymous in the manuals and ominous tests, it would have been no scope for any such acrobatic contortions ... especially under the PAL designation, which is just plain absurd.
Especially is not at all synonymous 1080/50Psf HDV format, which comes exacerbates.

Antwort von Axel:

It is very commendable that you want to see things labeled correctly. This absolutely contrary to the logic system has led many to refer to any alleged erroneous p as too flawed, and you test synonymous belonging to not compel me to seek the job, would result in too many matches.

Retrying: HDV2 has (a resolution of 1080 x 1440, but in "segmented frames; catchy German translation?), Which are built by default within the meaning of the classic lines of discontinuity, with (the upper half image, they talked, apparently out of date, of the even lines first) (, so) with a time delay. The FX1000 can record frames optional, but it must also be camouflaged as "(; description of a travesty or contraband) segmented frames, because then
a) satisfied, any guidelines?

This is the quiz question: What does the whole dance?

The users, among whom I count myself, would like to understand that. But are not qualified engineers for television. That this relationship often leads to questions, shows that the names are misleading. Mix-ups inevitable.

Antwort von pailes:

"WoWu" wrote:
A matrix is (a linear mapping; homomorphism) between two vector spaces.

That's just not the definition of a matrix. With the corresponding computational procedure is an application that can be a matrix, but by definition, a matrix of nothing more than "a table of numbers or other variables is". In the image processing such as filter cores are stored in matrices and these matrices have certainly nothing to do with linear maps between vector spaces. And there is quite give me any mathematician, I have done my homework in this regard guaranteed.

But Google views:
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=definition+matrix&btnG=Google-Suche&meta=&aq=f&oq =

I have no doubt that it synonymous PsF etc. But there I am sorry, You express yourself really confused and sometimes off while no one really understands what you want to say. Come to the point, otherwise you here are helping no one. No man wants to know or understand what you tell here. Fact is, the video programs talk of "Fields", DV-PAL codec, field dominance, etc. And if you do not know what the tools you mean, then you can not apply it.

Want to help people or do you want to show people how great you've memorized all the words?

Antwort von helot88:

Well, so then I could just once make an attempt to see if I recognize differences:
I take a normal sequence in 1080i. I add in CS4 in an HDV 1080i25 (and a 50i) Project.
Then I take the same sequence in the 25p mode on and add them to CS4 in an HDV 1080p25-a Project.
Then yes something should be different, right?

(; Question: Where can I see it, with what material I was) working

Do I have the 2nd Case, then edit in the timeline or anywhere else, the raw material inserted somehow? And how? - So I can receive synonymous 25p material or not?


PS: It's very interesting what has been written. Though highly theoretical, but without the well known, it is not synonymous.


Antwort von WoWu:

To bring some order into the matter:
The starting point was the statement: the camera makes 25p - 50i (, probably 1080) (; be read above)
Now, 1080/50i indeed a defined format, with 50 fields in a temporal misalignment. (be read; synonymous in addition to SMPTE 274M and SMPTE 240m)
(; Likely, too, are not in question and (with almost any) to be known here.
My objection: 25p you can not make a 50i.
Who wants to show me the opposite and make 25p - 50i can ... bitteschön ...
Then the crazy PAL DV came into play, of the Axel says there is and it would consist of rows.
We also used more Pailes (; leaping into the breach) with his definition of an Excel row and column ... which somehow have to be applied to the field of television ... as it was then completely insane.
And when Axel assumed I would mistake one field out of 50i with an S egmented Frame ... Please then go where the document is full-bodied announced?
So here are the names mixed up cheerfully, in the hope of any result that comes out here.

@ helot88
The properties of the content type is usually sufficient information as to what is the nature of the content.
I would prefer once consulted to ensure that the Schätzerei has an end. (; already mentioned)
Is (; like) presumed to psf and not the classic 50i fields, then I would move times consult the manual on how the program deals with ... Therefore, a search in 50i is of course wrong settled. Incidentally synonymous PsF have a field order, which of the camera must be known, otherwise waits for the next surprise.

Therefore, to use my argument that the correct names s.der right place and not the PAL-DV or excursions on the 50i Gewurschtel.

Antwort von pailes:

"WoWu" wrote:
My objection: 25p you can not make a 50i.
Who wants to show me the opposite and make 25p - 50i can ... bitteschön ...

We would it be because it: It generates converts from 50p to 25p and 50p to 50i. Whether it looks good, it may be debated, of course, but it's still doable.

Antwort von WoWu:

One can immediately synonymous with 50i accommodate the camera.
Look! Earlier in the thread what it says .... 25p!! in 50i!

Antwort von pailes:

Now I said regardless of any cameras and independently from the rest of the thread. Regardless, it is absurd, "Interlaced" is scrap anyway. ;)

Antwort von Axel:

In practice, one that many HDV cams are, can the 1080p, and that there is in the editing programs ambiguous preferences. This is very unfortunate since an improperly selected preset, unfortunately, we often noticed only after the export (; "Interweave" - deinterlace the preview window in the NLEs: Both fields, forgiveness, frame segments are shown superimposed).

The presets for Final Cut Pro, I have called, I guess it will take in the premiere, just a short attempt to find out the correct one. In any case, faster, read more than here and follow the casuistry.

Explain the tendency of WoWu, relationships at the level of quantum physics, but unfortunately does not help at all.

Antwort von WoWu:

Axel, that's nonsense and highly polemical.
If all of the top right s.The semiotics use the trip to the analog (or like you mean digital) PAL world would not have been necessary.
Precisely for that is the problem that no one tries to use the correct terms, and for it to happen to those very misunderstandings that you synonymous with a further enrichment of false concepts can not remove.
I quote in this context, like the Chinese philosopher Confucius, and was asked the of his Emperor what he should do to bring his distracted kingdom back in order. He answered briefly and succinctly: "Put the meaning of the terms and restores will not tolerate disorder in the words."
That would be my counter-proposal to your polemical and at least as unhelpful derailment.

Antwort von pailes:

@ WoWu:

And of course you only use the correct "semiotics", right? All others are wrong, of course, because you're right, of course, always.

Antwort von wolfgang:

So as I understand it, have come to attach various camcorder, the picture information of 25p from 50i in quasi - ie, without temporal offsets as we would expect of the definition of 50i. States - the frame is stored as two fields, among which there are no temporal misalignment. Furthermore mean that corresponds to the resolution is not just the movement of 50i, but the halt of 25p.

What I always ask me about the cause:) with "real" 50i (, also with a time delay we have now synonymous with fast motion or panning the reduction of resolution due to interlaced flicker (; Kell factor, or how good the play was called). In this "pseudo-25p mode" I wonder if there is such interlaced flicker synonymous - indeed because of the lack of time offset of the fields. There is thus no reduction of horizontal resolution, as we know it at 50i? I'm wondering s.dem corner .... more

Otherwise it is so that the cut programs have - purely technical - will be able to deal with this pseudo-25p material. They interpret this as probably stop 50i. Interesting is the question of what happens if we now turn to the 25p from a NLE prints. Ekin editing programs have indeed synonymous deinterlacing in the adjustment, the two fields to interfere (collectively, "blend" in Vegas for example) - that was supposed to be the ideal mechanism in order to make the pseudo 25p material then regarding the issue at 25p. What still remains a question for me, is the point, what I was doing with the material. For 1080 25p is provided in None Blu Ray Spec ...

Antwort von Axel:

Blu-ray as a consumer output format is probably not yet so widespread as a professional format not synonymous. When the time but plays a role, there are three options: All of the 1080p camcorder synonymous dominate "i. If we know then that it is only for a BD, you can just rotate it. Moreover, one can - as with Apple's Cinema Tools -- Just copy the movie for BD as 24p with a new timecode. The 4% slowdown of Picture and sound is totally unremarkable. Finally, you may find that 1080p can downkonvertieren absolutely easy to 720p (in surprisingly little loss of quality, compared to 1080p).

Antwort von wolfgang:

The slowing down 4% - ie the conversion of 25p to 24p - is certainly one of the best method, and is synonymous with various editing programs to be done quite easily. I have already made some trouble in Vegas. Material on 25p to spend and spend and stretch re-24p.

And it's quite occasionally so that some synonymous Player 1080 25p material - only it does not stop meets the standard, and is always a gamble.

Of course you can convert the material synonymous to 720p, although I'm not sure whether it actually falls within the permitted conversion types (; da gibts ja tables for this). But if so, then I would probably of such a material change to 720 50p want - because it will probably extrapolated from one frame every half frame and scaled accordingly. Again, the approximate computation would be interesting, probably depends very much from each of NLE.

Antwort von WoWu:

@ Wolfgang

Hello Wolfgang ..
.. You see, there are still considerable confusion about the format.
To your questions ... There are advantages to use 24 PsF?
Not really, because 24p and 24 psf (; 48sF) are not the same. psf's a format that raises in the play area a lot, because the "progressive-flag" to "lazy" is.
In the field of CTR you lie with the sampling rate of close psf s.der Nyquist limit of the vertical scanning frequency and you are acting so that the "interface-Twitter a". As I said, only when CTRs
In LED, plasma or DLP, however you have to go through the De-Inter Laser .. With all its weaknesses, the procedure for simple monitors had.
Add to this one ... If 24p is spoken of, are indeed often in the TV area 23.98 (; 24/1.001). Even if, as with the HVX200, which is 24 in the menue, not true. There are 23.98 with the result that at 24p, of course, "non-drop frame TC" applies, but with 23.98 "drop frame TC. A small but fatal difference, if that is not observed in the post-production.
So question benefits? No, except for the fact that the time of the introduction of 24 psf (in 1998) the infrastructure (transmission, especially in the more serial transmission) was set to interlaced rather than progressive. But as has become so synonymous completed a change.
Otherwise synonymous brings the variability in the transformations (, 2:3 / 2:3:3:2 pulldown actually) more advantages in the ATSC field than we do.

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