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Zwiespalt: HDV oder XL1s bzw XL2 und die ewige Frage des Filmlooks

Dilemma: HDV or XL1s or XL2 and the eternal question of the film looks



Frage von RTFChris:
Juni 2009

Hallo erstmal,
this is my first post in this forum and I will come with an annoying "what should I buy" question.
However, many posts had been ransacked and forums, but the various opinions have made me more insecure. Therefore, I try my luck this time!
At my request: Turn 3 years with a Panasonic hobby moderately NV-GS60 camcorder. This little thing is now semi-professional to be replaced by something. And since I am perfectly willing to spend 2000 to 2500 euro. A new camera, I would erstmal used for private purposes. One of my hobbies, short films shoot, for example. Since then comes schonmal the first point: "film look" I've heard the Canon XL1 (; s) or the Canon XL2 is particularly suited for this. However, the XL1 is not a true 16:9. Either provided or gesqueezed in post production material with black bars and take a quality loss in Purchase. The Canon XL2 is true 16:9 but is too expensive for my taste, with more than 4000 ¬. Unless it is needed (in my price range, ~ 2500 ¬) to get somewhere.
However, since I not only want to make films, but the camera synonymous with all sorts of occasions that the future brings (, holiday, wedding, birthday, etc) wants to use, would be handier than the camera, say, "conspicuous" XL1 / 2 is not even bad.
Since then I have stumbled upon the SonyHVR-A1. I know this is now something completely different. It is compact, gives good picture and good sound quality through the Micro. Of course, they can deliver 16:9 and HD. In the latter, I'm a bit worried with my laptop if I'll ever be able to edit HD material. Furthermore, the A1 can be no 25p, making the movie look was no longer synonymous. There is apparently something like Cineframe, which tries to adapt the look a little. With 2000 to 2400 ¬ I like her but in any case schonmal solely on price. It is not as obvious / bulky as the XL `s, you can take anywhere with them, and the" film look "in post production you get out somehow synonymous.
Nevertheless, I am totally undecided ...
Make an education in media design and sound-picture, and in the company nor was I recommended the following cameras (and all not a true 16:9):
SonyPD170
Panasonic AG-DVX100BE

Hope that was not too detailed. I look forward to your qualified opinions!



Antwort von Chezus:

latter Cams (; the PD170 and DVX), I would recommend you.
Handy when the XLs, if you need just do not shoulder mounted camcorder.

As you have probably already read in the forum do not necessarily look of the film comes from the Camera.

A good cam will help you only help bring out the best possible quality of recording, for the rest of you are personally responsible.

Speech in brief and sense: you can not take the decision because this or that camera has a better film look.

You're not synonymous with this or that just one car racing professional ..

When it comes to the point color reproduction, 25p goes, I would advise you to DVX

50i material later, you can transform the way synonymous to 25p



Antwort von Axel:

The Canon XH A1 is unrivaled for the price. The 25F mode is technically not a real full screen mode, in all practical matters, but he is as a result, there is no difference. Each newer Calculator can handle HDV without any problems. As far as this.

Film look with the camera but has nothing to do. This all sounds a little abrupt, is not so.





Antwort von comix:

"RTFChris" wrote:
Since then I have stumbled upon the SonyHVR-A1. I know this is now something completely different. It is compact, gives good picture and good sound quality through the Micro. Of course, they can deliver 16:9 and HD. In the latter, I'm a bit worried with my laptop if I'll ever be able to edit HD material. Furthermore, the A1 can be no 25p, making the movie look was no longer synonymous. There is apparently something like Cineframe, which tries to adapt the look a little. With 2000 to 2400 ¬ I like her but in any case schonmal solely on price. It is not as obvious / bulky as the XL `s, you can take anywhere with them, and the" film look "in post production you get out somehow synonymous.
Nevertheless, I am totally undecided ...

50i are 25p, then I would not worry. I always turn in 50i, since one can always make it slow motion in 25p, the function is gone. See the synonymous DVX100 forum or the big hv20.com Board. The road to "the look" is nciht 25p, but as you compose the picture and the light. 25p is just a nice to have. Of the hv20ern I know that not filmed mostly in 25p.

The A1E is a good cam, and would fit into the budget. Good in the light, crisp and sharp focus ring. 1A and XLR audio features synonymous.

Would you beside the A1E synonymous to advise XHA1 ... but that would not fit into the budget: What you need in the A1 and XHA1 is a good tripod, and it costs at least ¬ 400. Otherwise, you kannste the Cams synonymous save. Similarly, the necessary equipment, without which it is NEVER: Wide Angleund Microphone. The need additional _always_. In the XHA1 were with clear about 3000, in contrast, A1E very well in the budget. With the A1E rankommt not quite s.The XHA1.
The price for a A1E would be about 1700 ¬, for ne XHA1 to 2400 Euro.
As far as I know the A1E is currently sold to someone in the Sale of forum, whether XHA1 I do not know.

"RTFChris" wrote:
Make an education in media design and sound-picture, and in the company nor was I recommended the following cameras (and all not a true 16:9):
SonyPD170
Panasonic AG-DVX100BE

Those are the classic recommendations. They are good, but synonymous ancient. Which must both have 6 years under his belt have, and the notes they synonymous. Right now, I would not invest more in SD, especially since you want to create short films, shows and vimeo.com as well, what can HD in the sector.
Applies to the XL2 as well .... for me an overpriced camera, Canon can be the name of the 16:9 and pay well. Unergonomic it remains the same.



Antwort von ef.multimedia:

SD, I would caution you today. If you worry about the post, you can make the material downconvertieren synonymous with the issue. It still looks better than the DV footage of an XL1, VX2100, etc.

From the A1, I would advise you SonyHVR synonymous, because the picture quality can not compete with the cameras of the 2000-3000 ¬ class.

I just sell my SonyHDR FX7. It is the image quality of her on the level of the XH A1, but offers fewer configuration options, but a lot cheaper than the Canon.

http://forum.slashcam.de/viewtopic.php?p=358890&sid=4ca4ad31cd4ade11ea9fc99579b34edc # 358,890



Antwort von comix:

"ef.multimedia" wrote:

I just sell my SonyHDR FX7. It is the image quality of her on the level of the XH A1 ...

Well, that will see the tests quite differently .....



Antwort von B.DeKid:

"RTFChris" wrote:
....... The Canon XL2 is true 16:9 .....


Nope you can not. You'll become synonymous not unlike the XL1s.

25p are not synonymous filmlook - un film look consumption synonymous None, of course even if comes before (from the computer, once the EOS 5D Mark einwenig excluded)


MfG
B. DeKid



Antwort von RTFChris:

Thank you for schonmal detailed answers!
The way I understand I better hit the with the "film look" erstmal from the head. Hab mir mal 1-2 samples of the HD-A1 HVR downloaded and made a couple of quick color correction. With a little more time you can hinbekommen no probs the desired look. And it is really synonymous to the lighting etc.

Quote:
SD, I would caution you today.

Quote:
Right now, I would not invest more in SD, especially since you want to create short films, shows and vimeo.com as well, what can HD in the sector.

Slowly, it drives me so off of the SD cameras, and through to the HD cams.

Quote:
The A1E is a good cam, and would fit into the budget. Good in the light, crisp and sharp focus ring. 1A and XLR audio features synonymous.


I, for example, the HVR-A1 Used in the forum seen for 1900 ¬ including WW and Telecommunications tower and Filters, apparently mandatory accessories.
Sounds tempting. A good tripod I would have to grow even synonymous.

Do you think that 1,900 euros for a used HVR-(A1 incl the above accessories, ww, tele, filter) are ok? Have seen a similar offer on Ebay is finally gone for 1450 ¬.



Antwort von comix:

"RTFChris" wrote:
Thank you for schonmal detailed answers!
The way I understand I better hit the with the "film look" erstmal from the head. Hab mir mal 1-2 samples of the HD-A1 HVR downloaded and made a couple of quick color correction. With a little more time you can hinbekommen no probs the desired look. And it is really synonymous to the lighting etc.

Quote:
SD, I would caution you today.

Quote:
Right now, I would not invest more in SD, especially since you want to create short films, shows and vimeo.com as well, what can HD in the sector.

Slowly, it drives me so off of the SD cameras, and through to the HD cams.

The discussions were ever made. Unlike in the HD TVs HD was an urgent need for video cameras, once implemented, and the results stunning.
Only if you (; wanted to make documentaries) for TV, we still advise to SD, because there are good cams for.


Quote:
The A1E is a good cam, and would fit into the budget. Good in the light, crisp and sharp focus ring. 1A and XLR audio features synonymous.


"RTFChris" wrote:
I, for example, the HVR-A1 Used in the forum seen for 1900 ¬ including WW and Telecommunications tower and Filters, apparently mandatory accessories.
Sounds tempting. A good tripod I would have to grow even synonymous.

Do you think that 1,900 euros for a used HVR-(A1 incl the above accessories, ww, tele, filter) are ok? Have seen a similar offer on Ebay is finally gone for 1450 ¬.

Find the offer in the For Sale forum not only here: http://forum.slashcam.de/verkaufe-hvr-a1e-dvcam-hdv-camcorder-vt71520.html


At wide angle, eighth filter so that it is synonymous what is good. Most do not.
Would rather take a naked A1E, a nice purchase an Raynox 7000 MF, a Rode NTG-2 have,, and a class set for less than 1800th



Antwort von Johannes:

I use the DVX100A and the Canon XL1S also had before and s.and to work, nor the XL2, and I found the pictures of the DVX100 a lot better. They looked better handled as color, sharpness and sowas was concerned. In addition, I must say it is a really good allround camera. It currently rules 25p and much more for what the Scene is just right, you can take it but synonymous in the 50i mode for EB without long set that before. And a wide Anglebraucht one really difficult at the Camera. Moreover, it is synonymous built very sturdy.



Antwort von RTFChris:

Quote:
Find the offer in the For Sale forum not only here: http://forum.slashcam.de/verkaufe-hvr-a1e-dvcam-hdv-camcorder-vt71520.html


The offer is a bit dated, but it Nirg is that it is already sold: http://forum.slashcam.de/verkaufe-sony-hvr-a1-preisupdate-vt70706.html

There is not available on what a MF that is exactly.



Quote:
The discussions were ever made. Unlike in the HD TVs HD was an urgent need for video cameras, once implemented, and the results stunning.
Only if you (; wanted to make documentaries) for TV, we still advise to SD, because there are good cams for.


This is changing but slowly been synonymous. With me in the company, we have mostly SD cams. But now more and more of the transmitters are contracts where we need to clean Sonyeinsetzen the new XD Cam PDW-700 of. Slowly even smaller format in order to get to HD.



Antwort von comix:

"RTFChris" wrote:
Quote:
Find the offer in the For Sale forum not only here: http://forum.slashcam.de/verkaufe-hvr-a1e-dvcam-hdv-camcorder-vt71520.html


The offer is a bit dated, but it Nirg is that it is already sold: http://forum.slashcam.de/verkaufe-sony-hvr-a1-preisupdate-vt70706.html

There is not available on what a MF that is exactly.

You prefer to purchase the accessories to .... The Raynox 7000 or 6600 would have cost around 90 euros, which NTG2 Micro about 190 ¬.
The HVR-A1E is offered there will cost 1550 ¬, because kommste out onto same.



"RTFChris" wrote:
Quote:
The discussions were ever made. Unlike in the HD TVs HD was an urgent need for video cameras, once implemented, and the results stunning.
Only if you (; wanted to make documentaries) for TV, we still advise to SD, because there are good cams for.


This is changing but slowly been synonymous. With me in the company, we have mostly SD cams. But now more and more of the transmitters are contracts where we need to clean Sonyeinsetzen the new XD Cam PDW-700 of. Slowly even smaller format in order to get to HD.

Jo, that's true. HD is almost compulsory.



Antwort von RTFChris:

Now, said a friend of me to me no longer pick up the camera recording to tapes. Especially when there used to quickly give up the drive after 2-3 years the spirit. If I should, then a camera to get the recording to memory cards. of course has 2 advantages, dub no more time-consuming and expensive in the long, since it is not mini-DV tapes can play on indefinitely, and then rely on is constantly buying new ones. but the corresponding cameras (; pmw-ex ...) are of course again too expensive for my relationships.
is just not easy for me because I get different opinions of all the site confuse me again. above all, the argument used with the hvr-s.and the claimed may drive ...



Antwort von Axel:

Also I have many friends, have not with the advice behind the mountain. My opinion on this story tape: It can happen that you buy heads that are actually from. You can hear it then, and when of a very old camera or of people who rush through every day for three tapes. The vast majority of old-timers out of date before they are defective. Cards other hand, seem much less certain. And as for the cameras, into which you push them, they seem designed more closely on obsolescence. Look at it the shell of a former time in the light.



Antwort von comix:

"RTFChris" wrote:
Now, said a friend of me to me no longer pick up the camera recording to tapes. Especially when there used to quickly give up the drive after 2-3 years the spirit. If I should, then a camera to get the recording to memory cards. of course has 2 advantages, dub no more time-consuming and expensive in the long, since it is not mini-DV tapes can play on indefinitely, and then rely on is constantly buying new ones. but the corresponding cameras (; pmw-ex ...) are of course again too expensive for my relationships.
is just not easy for me because I get different opinions of all the site confuse me again. above all, the argument used with the hvr-s.and the claimed may drive ...

The electronics of a camera memory card can be just go west. In miniDV sector have the Manufacturer Estimated 10 years of experience, with tapes drives and camcorders in general, probably about 20 years.
In the forum you can not read to little of prosumer cameras with def. Drives - that there is not usually easy. Only if they are durchgenudelt, but since it is clear.

tape has immense advantages. You can change it any way you want, you can archive it as you like, you get it from everywhere, and you can shoot unlimited, there is no bottleneck like to complete cards.
Sure, AVCHD is on the rise, but in the prof. Area is indeed virtually everywhere only tape.

Prosumer have been designed so that man with whom much is filming. Because I would rather look not so much on the hours when the rest is true.
If the once fallen to the ground, the camera does it hurt more ... would look for strong signs of use. Had a schonmal XL1 had in his hands, which has probably personally experienced three hurricanes, scratches, dents, Lackabschürfungen ... it was then clear that the 2 weeks later went flutes.



Antwort von RTFChris:

The times are good, solid arguments. Thank you!
I now receive an email with the exact hours:

Operation: 29x10H
Drum: 23x10H
Current Volume: 20x10H

The camera was at Sony, for Rundumcheck has the latest firmware and "absolutely no technical defects"
Sounds like a good maintenance.



Antwort von comix:

"RTFChris" wrote:
The times are good, solid arguments. Thank you!
I now receive an email with the exact hours:

Operation: 29x10H
Drum: 23x10H
Current Volume: 20x10H

The camera was at Sony, for Rundumcheck has the latest firmware and "absolutely no technical defects"
Sounds like a good maintenance.

Hours is for prosumers anyway in order, for Sony.
I would, however, times can send pictures if the synonymous nen good impression, I would strike.



Antwort von Chezus:

As an example:

My PD 150 has

223x10h
70x10h
49x10h
200x10

and works just fine. No dropouts



Antwort von RTFChris:

"Chezus" wrote:
As an example:

My PD 150 has

223x10h
70x10h
49x10h
200x10

and works just fine. No dropouts


Thanks for the Comparison!
Information I have received and look synonymous top. S.Poppschutz alone, we recognize that it is needed. Would she like to visit. I live in Cologne, look him in Berlin ... Well times.



Antwort von Axel:

"RTFChris" wrote:
Would she like to visit. I live in Cologne, look him in Berlin ... Well times.


Opportunity for a change of scenery. A camera gets you in person. Safer and fairer for both sides.



Antwort von comix:

"RTFChris" wrote:
"Chezus" wrote:
As an example:

My PD 150 has

223x10h
70x10h
49x10h
200x10

and works just fine. No dropouts
Would she like to visit. I live in Cologne, look him in Berlin ... Well times.

yes, pick up is always safer. But I mean the HV30 XL and then settled on synonymous Slashcam by bank transfer, and was synonymous with everything.
Ask if they offer delivery or Paypal, if so, then you can assume that the seller can maintain a certain accuracy at the Camera halt. (; wow, what a beautiful word-combo)

Haste, perhaps there could watch a friend of the Cam again? Berlin is not even the smallest town!



Antwort von Zizi:

Film look is still 50% sure I light the lights and then comes the setting depth of field, high contrast / color, grain, picture composition, and it depends again strongly synonymous of content from the movie ..
I would for any film-look Rolfilm the will and still have enough money to give up HD not clearly recommend the 5DMk2! Is Staged at the moment for anything better filmmaker!
Everything else is too expensive and has too lame picture quality as the previously mentioned, the XH A1 in my eyes not to deliver better pictures such as strong consumer!



Antwort von RTFChris:

The hvr-present s.ist arrived.
Have a bit of testing and working with the filmed. wonderful.
just come back home. get the tape out. do it clean again. the pure drive and load STOP. nothing works anymore. all the batteries tested, nothing will. s.strom directly connected to nothing about. Now the mini-dv fold is open and the tape is half-retracted.
that can not be true? I is my camera, the TOT as NOTHING works anymore. at once. before everything was wonderful zero problems. And then half an hour later. more suddenly not at all. such a shit.
have written to the vendor already. but ye have ne idea? I'm too stupid or what's going on?



Antwort von pilskopf:

Sudden infant death, unfortunately, is synonymous with prior art. You can hear every once synonymous with cams. I'm so sorry, fresh toys and then gehts broken.



Antwort von Axel:

Position of the * L * O * C * K * - switch checked?
First-day error number one, the resurrection is like a fairy tale: The zombie bride breaks her glass coffin, peace, joy and pancakes.



Antwort von pilskopf:

Would be crass, if not even then enters the tape.



Antwort von RTFChris:

the "auto lock" switch is to off ..
see the problem very clearly in the power supply. comes to nothing. neither power nor accurate. lämpchen no lights, no beep.



Antwort von frm:

"Axel" wrote:
Also I have many friends, have not with the advice behind the mountain. My opinion on this story tape: It can happen that you buy heads that are actually from. You can hear it then, and when of a very old camera or of people who rush through every day for three tapes. The vast majority of old-timers out of date before they are defective. Cards other hand, seem much less certain. And as for the cameras, into which you push them, they seem designed more closely on obsolescence. Look at it the shell of a former time in the light.


What is with the Ex1 to light? Only macke is going on behind the label, but Sonyreparierts free.
The Ex1 is a super camera got a lot done with the !!!!!



Antwort von Axel:

@ RTFChris
Found A description of the problem, when the problem was supposedly the "motherboard". Try synonymous short time, the Russian method, a brief handshake. Otherwise s.zum service.

@ rm
You know obviously not the SonyVX1k and VX2k, the DV classics. Indestructible as the Terminator. Got the shock with the Canon XH A1, thin-walled plastic, had almost feel a part of a purchase-sale store bought to: goods in the shop window dummies have no function ...
The EX3 (; Over 7000 Øre): The same way, only worse. Weichplastikabdeckungen for cables that do not fit exactly, cheap-looking buttons. Haptics says: caution, very fragile. It'sa SONY??



Antwort von RTFChris:

@ Axel
Have a bit shaken s.der Cam. Here I am noticed a noise. sounds like the cam in a loose little bits and pieces of something flying about. the noise but now I can not hear because of the noise ... I had synonymous (; functioned as the cam yet) want to open the tapefach. rausgenommen then got the tape, there is nothing omitted from the cam, then pushed down the tape loaded. the fold has been buzzing around, grumbling. abetting is a little bit and then stopped.
hab grad synonymous again one heard little shaken, but nothing serious happened ... and nothing.
'll probably wait for a response from retailers and s.montag go to a workshop and get tested + to make a proposal.
if contact is just another broken prevents the power supply, it can not be too expensive. or?
schonmal weekend is gone now ...



Antwort von pilskopf:

Was needed? If so, shit. Does it indeed a doubly sorry.



Antwort von RTFChris:

Quote:
Was needed? If so, shit. Does it indeed a doubly sorry.


Yes needed. No longer a guarantee. Has anyone ne idea how such a repair will cost on average. Is it worth it?




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