Logo Logo
Artikel:Blue Screen und Keying im Eigenbau

Item: Blue Screen and keying in Eigenbau

Newsmeldung von slashCAM:
September 2005

Blue screen and keying in Eigenbau of gast - 1 Sep 2005 19:21:00
> Anyone who has dealt with the topic a little blue screen and keying in the video practice, knows that today a lot is possible, which was reserved years ago, only expensive Hollywood studios. Who does not feel like a camcorder with similar effects to produce spectacular? A Instructions of Olli Ludovic.

Antwort von huholzer:

WARNING, the replica of the light ring threatens their health!

It has been a reason why the original is not only 4 LEDs. For the Manufacturer, it should be no problem to get such bright LEDs.
Even use car manufacturer for a large number of LED taillights instead of just a few. This is synonymous for a reason.

Point light source with a high intensity dazzles us and we felt as disturbing and unpleasant. As a simple example can take a light bulb with clear amen Glaskoben. If we look at-Operating directly on this, so this is perceived as disturbing uncomfortable. This is caused by the hot wire with its high brightness.

The more important reason, however, prevent injury to the eye!
Point sources of light with high intensity are always a great danger.
Now, skeptics may laugh surely seeing eye with this, I refer only to the data sheets of the Manufacturer. There you can find, especially for high-brightness LEDs, phrases such as:
"Oops! Do not look directly into the beam! Risk of retinal burn, "etc.
Who wants to be happy s.helllichten long day, the sky ;-)

(In this issue, he probably would be synonymous price difference, and finally secures from each company with expertise.)

Therefore, I advise strongly against any replica with only 4 ultra-bright LEDs.
The author should revise the ring of light, as in the original, to about 50 LEDs.

As a small hint: If health harms other people will be prosecuted!

Antwort von Jimmy:

As a small hint: If health harms other people will be prosecuted!

Become Smokers synonymous punishable?

Antwort von GhostDog:

"huholzer" wrote:

Point light source with a high intensity dazzles us and we felt as disturbing and unpleasant.

The address of your "point source" has an angle of 90 °, as it is mentioned in the description of the LED synonymous to the article. 90 ° is very much for LED (normal is 15 ° or 30 °). Under these conditions, one can hardly speak of point-like .... .

"huholzer" wrote:

"Oops! Do not look directly into the beam! Risk of retinal burn, "etc.
Who wants to be happy s.helllichten long day, the sky ;-)

Sure, synonymous with McDonald's in USA you can find the link on every coffee cup that you could get burned. Of course, such a risk, but probably only if you try to blackheads your actors is to film in detail.

"huholzer" wrote:

(In this issue, he probably would be synonymous price difference, and finally secures from each company with expertise.)

Yes exactly, it will probably be ....

"huholzer" wrote:

The author should revise the ring of light, as in the original, to about 50 LEDs.

What is technically only once (synonymous for the layman in general) is not a problem. However, as mentioned above, next have "normal" LED indicates angle of 15-30 °. Illumination could also be the problem. Apart from the risk through the pooling of individual LED beam probably similar to ... .

"huholzer" wrote:

As a small hint: If health harms other people will be prosecuted!

Did the article just to protect the consumer associations, the public prosecutor as well as various other agencies reported. Other steps include the call for censorship of this Article by the operator of the site, while the threat of coercive detention ;-)).

Last but not least: The LED ring, as it is described in the article, will certainly not be granted long life. Indeed, it is imperative that one LED with series resistor operates. Who's interested in why this is so that it can (read [URL = http://forum.electronicwerkstatt.de/phpBB/faq/led/]HIER[/URL] especially point 5).

Nice Weekend

To hedge: My opinion is irrelevant, incompetent and should not be the basis for decision-making of anyone! I disassociate myself in every form of damage whatsoever, generally by my presence in this forum and on the Internet, anyone, might somewhere, somehow arise. A liability on my part is thus impossible. ;-)

Antwort von LuFaHa:

Best solution: Actor Interviw or partner with an extremely dark, mirrored sunglasses equip.
Protects and gives the whole, the degree of "Matrix flair" ...


Antwort von Jimmy:

How's actually made with the material, which is available on the website http://www.dinovation.de? Would be financially more viable ...?!?

Antwort von Blackeagle123:


Why so expensive film and use a light ring ...?

Why not simply use cheaper regular blue foil and makes normal blue screen?

To save on lighting costs? If that's the only reason I find the garbage!

Love Greetings

Antwort von gregor:

Super idea
what are you on here with attorney and consumer Stutz?

Antwort von GhostDog:

"gregor" wrote:
Super idea
what are you on here with attorney and consumer Stutz?

Smilie not seen?

Antwort von Retro:

Good tip with http://www.dinovation.de:
1 square meter for 18 euros would be cheap - but does not know whether the film is really the right ...?
Dinovation Avery Dennison !" Commercial Grade Reflective Foil M500 White
[/ url]

Antwort von huholzer:

Sorry, the angle in this case does not matter!
The light intensity I [cd] is the Lichtsromdichte in a certain direction. Light sources generally do not radiate uniformly in all directions. As the intensity of light at different angle, one can see from the LDC, if prepared by the Manufacturer. The given intensity (cd to) depending on the Manufacturer, the maximum relative to the 0 ° arm (in front of the lamp) or be an average over a certain angle. The specified value, we at the 0 ° axis at any rate always reached.

Viewed apart from the fact that the light source is only 3-5mm in size. If that is not point-like, then what?

Regardless of all this techno-bla-bla for me are always the information from the Manufacturer and / or seller decisive. The fact is directly, that a warning for high brightness LEDs ever before to look into the beam. Increasing the intensity, synonymous increases the clarity of the warnings. Examples such as "burning the retina or laser safety signs are common.

The whole problem can be easily circumvented by using no high-brightness LEDs. Instead, low-intensity LEDs used in large numbers and receives Does such a surface emitter of the same. (Has been understood in the first post apparently not quite.) This I can only recommend any.
For my case, certainly not mine, and endangering the health of others because of a few euros and a more involved process.

Gruß Horst

Antwort von LuFaHa:

I think the idea is brilliant, as in this way comes readily to a blue screen, which can quickly become synonymous times a green screen. Obviously it needs to be careful with the light intensity, but this is really not a serious problem. Easily one can still save large sums of money if you just 50 less bright LEDs used.
Nevertheless, everyone must make his own experiences. Finally, it is so said among other things, to use the whole thing not just for interviews, but synonymous for larger projects. And here is certainly not certain whether the actor (or whoever is becoming synonymous filmed), only fixed on the individual LED's stare.

Thank you for caring so exuberant that you entgegebringst the members of slashCAM, dear Horst!

Antwort von DigiVidi:

Hello community, synonymous, I find this idea ingenious and have long been searching for an alternative to the Chromatte system.

I have been tests with reflective tape, as of www.dinovation.de
The problem is that the reflectivity with the angle of incidence changed greatly, for example in moving camera. Secondly, and this was actually the knock-out criterion, the coating of the film is like a disturbing mirror. The blue light source is reflected back as if you shoot through a glass window. The experiments were then terminated.

I have ordered at least 4 square meters of fabric and the effect described'm excited about the results.

Back to the ring of light: for 38 cents per LED, it is probably no problem reduces to build a slightly larger model, by one turn each with 4 additional LEDs to the existing parallel and the dimmer the light intensity.

In addition, the large viewing angle of 90 degrees very well affect the effective concentration of light on the retina. A focused laser can cut steel, defocused, he is harmless. Own Erfahrrung.

Or not, I find the tutorial easy class and am looking forward to my own experiments.

Antwort von mosillus:


is the case only by filming the front of her possible or is synonymous of the bottom? or side

Antwort von majon:

All sounds very interresannt synonymous for photografie,
But what I wonder:
as far as I can with the LED's to be away from the screen? The recording with the bear are so max 2m screen between LED and what is at 5 meters or more distance?
how it is when several people are faced with the srceen then throw shadows on the screen but different, or does the effect fabric synonymous then the light because he somehow internal weiterspiegelt?

there's someone has info or experiences?

Antwort von DigiVidi:

Hello majon,

we have made with the Light-robin tests and were at a distance of 13 meters, easily illuminate the background (did not go next, because space is limited :-).

@ Mosillus

s.der retroreflexiven area is so great for us, that we can move with the camera. In our experiments changes in the optical axis to almost 80-85 degrees were possible to the left and right. So you can wander with the camera wherever you like up, down, right, left - the uniform illumination of the background area had always been (clear, at some point you get) in the border areas. If one moves in a conventional blue-screen studio with the Camera: Always wanted to be the problem with the shadow and the need to re-illuminate the background.

The persons or objects should be lighted so that no stray light as possible, ideally 1st falls on the background and 2 into the lens of the camera. Here one should play around a little. Two lights (left, right and almost in Height of the background area) of the page highlight the people. We have done so much good experience. Details can then get an excellent addition with the targeted spot lights.

Antwort von CHRiS:

@ DigiVidi
Hello! Light Ring is yours now Eigenbau? How many LEDs are you working and how much are these? Blue or green?

Your Retro-Reflective material is now, therefore, this effect of substance XSpecht, right? You had previously written once, that you with material of 3M had bad experiences. What material exactly was that? I now have an offer available for the material of 3M Scotchlite Hochreflexfolie High Gain 7610 ". (1 roll 0,61 m x 4,57 m for nearly 300, - Euro). The reflective foil of 3M has probably a higher return illuminating power.

3M film: "430 - 450 cd / lx * m" (between 0.2 ° and 30 ° observation angle)
Xspecht film: "More than 100 cd / lx * m"

I have been thinking that a higher retention force for illumination, "our purpose" is better. I have samples of this slide (unfortunately) only 2 A4 sheets illuminate but not yet had the opportunity to those with LEDs ... In other tutorials of this material was almost raving.

So if you the same material (high-gain 7610) of 3M had before, with the bad experiences you've done, I'd appreciate a quick feedback before I) for 300, - Toad (+ VAT so buy a part. .. Thanx!


Antwort von DigiVidi:

Our Light Ring Reflecmedia of it is original and is blue. We share in the moment, both the original Chromatte fabric as a synonymous XSpecht the effect fabric.

Unfortunately I have only the internal terms of 3M Company. We had experimented with a prismatic foil (title: KKG111) and one called "Scotchlite Reflective Sheeting KKG812. But both had an extremely high re-illumination.

One thing is for us has become clear: the higher the return illumination is not so much the better. The CCD of the camera starts at too high a return illuminating to interpret the projection as blue as turquoise and white to some (no preference will be projected onto the surface at which wavelength). You then need to reduce the light ring so much that you get pushed away the scattered light and no more disturbances on the screen. Chromatte has probably synonymous for around 100 cd / lx * m chosen, because the substance of XSpecht Chromatte and is nearly identical to the point.

As I mentioned earlier, is the Haupproblem the film that it shines, and that in fact a reflection layer is covered by a coating. You are behind in your shots either your projection light, your light and your fill light guide. Or all together. And at too high a return Illumination synonymous still several scattered light. Times to attempt to draw a clean key. Almost impossible. Perhaps you once could post a link to the mentioned tutorials?

Film can act in the way, with relatively poor uswegen their small width. But then of course, it depends, what exactly do you have in front.

So before you invest the money in foil, would rather just reaching views to the original in order to collect a bit of experience.

A little tip: the Chromatte dealer that I know to give it a system of free time to try out for a day.

Antwort von CHRiS:


Antwort von Matti:

Have received today the effect of substance XSpecht. This stuff is echt der Hammer!! Did the same time, a few meters back-ordered.

The Light Ring man to watch out that you rankommt as close as possible s.das Lens and LEDs that are slightly rotated outward, the more they will go into the shot.

Greeting, Matti.

Antwort von Blackeagle123:

Hi Matti,

Tell me, have you not when keying the problem is that, because such hair is synonymous blue illuminated, weggekeyt half of the hair, or the abdomen, where blue reflections occurring?

That is the reason why I disregard them ... If, without much to illuminate a small blue cardboard sheets buys that is put, or sticking s.eine wall or something, a teddy bear in front of sets, one is cheaper, synonymous with no shade when it's done in a room where a very much mixed light produced in such small things should not be a problem, I think!
And if you want to have big blue screen, take halt construction lights and certain blue wallpaper, or Einmaltischdecke ausm hardware store.
-> And has better results!?

Love Greetings

Antwort von Sixxfour:

Good evening everybody!
I have read all the entries with tension and ultimately ask me now: Where real qualitative difference between the Reflecmedia Chromatte fabric and the effect of substance XSpecht? What did the one thing that does not have the other? Or the difference is only in the final price?
Would be nice if my views of the users who really know both could provide information, because somehow I do not know quite what to believe.


Antwort von DigiVidi:

@ Bernd
First, we believe that the difference between Chromatte Reflecmedia and the effect of substance XSpecht really lies in price. We've made with the effect of chemical tests:
1. He was totally crushed. Despite the Verknitterung we were able to achieve good results, even though the object was only about 80cm in front of the background. A little further distance makes it perfect (depth of field, blue screen or homogeneous). You can even iron the stuff, of course not too hot ;-)
2. We have it plastered on a wall with special glue for heavy wallpaper. You can safely leave the paths overlap. With a damp cloth should then be wiped clean of superfluous paste. Works fine! The fabric is s.den overlapping authorities do not "blindly". Thus, large areas of land cover are very good with the effect of fabric.
It is synonymous sufficient if you have several lanes next to each other is so that the sides a bit more overlap.
Greeting ...

Antwort von prem:

Hi :-)

I use the set of Reflecmedia, but I have a big problem:

When the actor as 1 meter Removes from the screen, it means always those annoying Halo's / shadow upfront ...
These are so obscure that the key is not particularly good works!

Does anyone know of this problem synonymous to you?
What can you do about it?

Christian :-)

Antwort von Matti:

the reflection ratio of hair is in Comparison to the effect of substance about 1:1000. The blue light only bothers you when films reflecting surfaces. You imagine the front pretty easy to hang because of small blue box and Action. The new method reduces the time, set-and lighting costs quite dramatically and is becoming increasingly more.

Click once on "Iranoil Commercial" at this link:

http://www.reflecmedia.com/content.aspx?Content=showcase.htm #

It may be that you are using too much light ring? The smaller the diameter of the ring is, the closer you come s.The optical axis of the camera, the less you did, halos

Reflecmedia has its own way, keying pluging developed, which is some people have already helped, because it is specialized in this type of application.


Greeting, Matti

Antwort von prem:

Hi Matti,

I have little light ring
This fits exactly on the lens ...

The Mattenee plugin synonymous, I have already tested!
But really, it can suppress these halos, because they are simply too dark (), almost black!


Antwort von diebadehose:


about light ring, I would say you that:

* It is, in my experience only of benefit if the light source of much of the optical path axis (that is, larger ring)

* Be synonymous with a few leds a "soft" light means eg nylonstrumpfhose which is placed over the light ring (not objectively übr) (then you can control the "softness" synonymous well over the voltage for strumpfhose)

only as small as a thought-provoking;

What would interest me, however, where you can stoffen guenstig in Vienna to come for a green screen?
the alternative "billigstoffe" are there?

Thanks and love gruesse!

Antwort von danibert:

Hi All,

I ordered the film of XSpecht and built a ring of 18 multi-color LEDs (3000 Mcd per color). Thus, I can quickly switch between multiple colors. So it looks to me:

zum Bild

So far so good, but there is still a problem:
My camera needs a relatively large amount of light to generate a good quality image. When I think the person who will be gekeyed very brightly illuminate, the background color is so pale that I am part of the whole keyen can not anymore. If I'm quite dark lighting of the foreground, it works keying problems, but the recording krieselt very strong.

Have you been synonymous such experiences? How can I fix this problem?

Thanks in advance

Antwort von Matti:

@ danibert

you probably have more projection power. Have you ever Mcd 3000 Color each LED or a total of 3,000? That would be too little.

Greeting, Matti

Antwort von Markus:

Alternatively, a more intense camcorder would be a solution, but I guess that is eliminated. ;-)

Antwort von silvan:

Hi All,

I would also like to chromakeying ordered set with your Tips and Tricks nachbauen.Habe material and LED already.

But my question is:

How far can the LEDs radiate? Can a person (Width 1-2 m) without problems (with legs) and shed light on film?

Thank you!

Antwort von tkloppholz:


I am looking for someone who could give me meters for a film such an effect is material about 1.5 x 2. (two weeks, is for an image film about a handball club) for a unique project of the substance is something very expensive.

If I look through letters. you can reach me by you the user name (a) web.de turn depends.

Danke, Gruß Thomas

Antwort von Blizzard:

A cheap alternative is simple, you go s.besten into a fabric shop, etc. then you ask for a cloth (preferably made from cotton) with the lime green color (so does that mean green) 255th So I have made it synonymous, and had good results.

Antwort von tannhaeuser:

For simple projects, the classical method is absolutely sufficient and considerably less expensive than a blue-buw. Green Screen with retroreflexiven materials.

(A little bit of green cloth from a fabric shop or of www.jaguar-vision.com for 30,00-40,00 ¬ and rented a little light, a suitcase with 4 headlights may have for just ¬ 60.00 per day to rent) and ready is the Blue or Green Screen.

A Blue-buw. Green Screen with retroreflexiven materials required (but considerably less light, spotlights) for the illumination of the background so the method can be used well-mobile.

The Eigenbau a light ring is worth, in my view not. The cost of providing a reasonable light ring in the Eigenbau the professional results are hardly less than the investment in a system of Reflecmedia video or data. Even in the professional systems, there are always problems with halos and Shadows, the only good Keyingsoft or hardware can be compensated.

A possible solution for the shadow problem I describe on my Page, see link.

As for the background material retroreflexives suitable substitute 3M Scotchlite 89xx which you refer to about 37, - ¬ / m² on 3M dealer can.

More info This is available here: http://www.tannhaeuser.eu/index.php?id=25

I've been working with the more technical Chromaflex Reflecmedia system and it would not have missed for mobile applications.

Antwort von dermarc:

Could ask the question: If I turn with two cameras, then I need two synonymous Light rings. Do I expect problems with that?

Schonmal Has anyone thought about or with experience, a ready light ring like this one

http://cgi.ebay.de/LED-Ringlicht-144-LEDs-dimmbar-20-000-Lux-Mikroskop_W0QQitemZ110297516190QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDE_Computer_Elektronik_Foto_Camcorder_Optik?hash=item19ae3e889e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72% 3A1229 | 66% 3A2 | 65% 3A12 | 39% 3A1 | 240% 3A1318 | 301% 3A1 | 293% 3A1 | 294% 3A50

recolor with a filter film? That would be an inexpensive solution, right?


Antwort von Ron:

Hello together,
Please look for a start, perhaps naive questions:

Why does the LED `s must be arranged around the lens around and not, for example 20 cm above or near the Cam?
Must log the LEDs have exactly 90 ° or more is synonymous? (see this LED `s: http://www.pur-led.de/product_info.php?info=p556_50cm-extrem-helle-and-flexible-SIDEVIEW-LED-Leiste-blau-12V.html)
or less? (see this: http://www.leds24.com/LEDs-fertig-verkabelt-fuer-12V/12V-LED-fertig-verkabelt-RGB-diffus---steuerbar.html?XTCsid=2f2a18dd5abec35965b75a0f4bc87a6d

Sincerely, Ron

Antwort von deti:

"Ron" wrote:
Why does the LED `s must be arranged around the lens around and not, for example 20 cm above or near the Cam?

The property of the retroreflective material, the light is reflected exactly in the direction from which it comes. Learn more about this here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroreflexion

"Ron" wrote:
Must log the LEDs have exactly 90 ° or more is synonymous?

It is important that the exact line of sight from the camera to film the end area is completely irradiated. Who uses LEDs with a smaller angle must be positioned accordingly more accurate LEDs. Who use LEDs with lower power, also needs to use more individual LEDs.

A too wide viewing angle (as in the dir of designated products) is not really suitable for the application of retroreflective, because too much light is lost.

Since the light output of blue LEDs is slightly smaller, more green LEDs are recommended for the project.


Antwort von B.DeKid:

For example, 300 were synonymous but art does not use Lichtringe Lichtbaenke bestueckt with LEDs, that is synonymous nich know why I should not go to where the camera into the LEDs kuckte nich ;-)

B. DeKid

PS. The color on the fabric of 3M and is called 8010 and will proceed from the screen ;-)

Antwort von deti:

"B. DeKid" wrote:
PS. The color on the fabric of 3M and is called 8010 and will proceed from the screen ;-)

Uh, quick question: What color do you think of retroreflective material? You mean "gray Baaz" (as we in Bavaria) to say, right?


Antwort von Ron:

Ah, understood - thanks!
Another question:
The eyes of the person filmed did not reflect the blue / green light?

Sincerely, Ron

Antwort von B.DeKid:

@ Deti


That my ego is the plotter Fritze that be said of my films and got me so nen Kramm, after which I plan ner company manufactures it, he is now looking synonymous times.

Because is schon krass what the want for the big screen.


Well if the actor nich sits directly in front of the LED is the fact that Prob nich so I've been told.
At 300 one has told me that there were several sqm and the dim light benches with more than 200LEDs

B. DeKid

Antwort von Ron:

Hi All,
Unfortunately, the effect is material under "www.xspecht.com" (no longer purchase them; Submit link is dead, too) is the contact phone number is listed under "No connection under this number."

Does anybody know where one can obtain this or similar effect stuff?

Greetings Ron

Antwort von scoose:

Tach together - I'm only here on the
Article Cromatte-tripped, was among the
Prices Pipi inne eyes and then took
this contribution. Hammergeil! This should
it finally be possible, even with my
PAL XL1s nearly Keybar Footage
to generate! :)

Now I've one more question. Even
I enjoy working with green. The presented
LEDs with precise product designation were
already been tested and found to be good ...
Is there a hint of green LEDs?
If the link or the name of super
nachzuschieben here yet!

Thanks in advance!


Antworten zu ähnlichen Fragen:
Blue Screen 1980
Elektronischer Einhand-Gimbal im Eigenbau
Super 8 Film-Reiniger im Eigenbau
Netzteil Qdyssey 7Q gesucht oder Eigenbau?
Webwatch: Videobeamer fuer Arme im Eigenbau
Keying Frage
Nach Keying Maske?
VR und Greenscreen-Keying
Professionelle Keying-Tutorials
Keying von C300 M2 Material?
Optimales Rohmaterial für"s Keying
Keying: UHD 8Bit o. FHD 10Bit?
Greenscreen / Chroma keying nur auf bestimmten Bereich anwenden
WD Blue vs WD RED?
DeckLink und Ultrastudio ermöglichen Live-Keying mit Adobe Character Animator
Screen Recorder
Screen to avi ?
Blue ray Disc brennen
HD DVD oder Blue Ray?
"Green Screen" Eckernförde
Neue Formate - Blue Ray - HD DVD
Fragen an Green Screen Experten
Blue Ray brenne mit m4v-Format
Tilta Screen Modification for the BMPCC 6K & 4K
Capture Video von Screen / Zeitraffer
Green Screen, Grasfläche usw. > After Effects CS 6

weitere Themen:

Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
After effects
Apple Final Cut Pro
Final Cut
MAGIX video deLuxe
Pinnacle Studio