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Panasonic HVX200...der einzig wahre in seiner Klasse?

Panasonic HVX200 ... the only true in its class?



Frage von etch:
April 2007

Is it true that the Panasonic HVX2000 the only HDV camcorder to date is not with the cheap 25fp's records? That would mean that one of the Canon XL H1 to SonyHDR FX 1 can forget everything ... Is that?



Antwort von Wolfpeter-Hans-Dieter:

Well, so I would not say. If you ever recorded an FX1 or h1 wilt thou hast seen synonymous not say that is rubbish. The HVX200 can but I think pretty much as a single cam with a data rate of 100 Mbit / s to record, if you do this now ...



Antwort von Bernd E.:

"Wolf-Peter Hans-Dieter" wrote:
HVX200 can ... but with a data rate of 100 Mbit / s Record

This is because they have no HDV camera, but in DVC PRO HD recording format.

Gruß Bernd E.








Antwort von Wolfpeter-Hans-Dieter:

Yes it is Boogie. But in any case, with full HD data rate and thus be complete without bucking, bewegungsunschärfen ... etc. (???) Or because I misunderstood what?



Antwort von etch:

Exactly what I mean:
All HD cams are scrap. Besides the HVX the 2000th The data rate of 100Mbit is yes None of Cam in the price class achieved. What does it cost so ne P2 card? I've just found suppliers that lending. I hope that in 10 years HD is mature, and I will ne Cam life can be growth.



Antwort von Axel:

"Wolf-Peter Hans-Dieter" wrote:
Yes it is Boogie. But in any case, with full HD data rate and thus be complete without bucking, bewegungsunschärfen ... etc. (???) Or because I misunderstood what?


No Mpeg2 HDV = No compression, where only every 6th to 15 Frame fully described. This is in moving the resolution Camera Not in the cellar. The Camera would be the first choice. Unfortunately, it is not just twice as expensive as the Canon XH A1, but almost three times because you have P2 cards or a Fire doors (or similar) to the purchase price to be expected.



Antwort von rob:

Hello,

interesting that precisely the HVX 200 issue - we just test them for our camera database.

The HVX 200 is a lot s.Specials Comparison with the other HD camcorders. The data is with (max) 100 Mbit / s is much higher than with HDV, 25 MBit / s. You do not use the MPEG-based HDV codec but Panasonics DVCPRO HD. This codec works with 4:2:2 sampling to 4:2:0 sampling i.Ggs of DV and HDV.

The chip operates purely progressive but with lower resolution. What this means and how this will impact the picture quality, there will soon be read here.

Best Regards

rob



Antwort von Bernd E.:

"Anonymous" wrote:
What does it cost so ne P2 card?

The 8GB size (so that you can for about eight minutes to turn HD), there's currently a bargain offer already for 545 Euro plus VAT ..

Gruß Bernd E.



Antwort von Wolfpeter-Hans-Dieter:

Only 545 ¬? That is the purest bargain. How much does it cost for a hard drive and how big is or how is the transport? So yes, I had right now with my answer, yes?



Antwort von emu:

Then wait times from the NAB - the 16 GB modules are on the way and according DVX Forum, the price for the 8 GB P2 cards already short at 395 euros + VAT. here in Dt. (but sadly again)!

I'm sharp synonymous to the HVX200 and have been for the special deal with the 2 P2 cards, which ran to almost 31.3 respectively, but I hope times have a better offer at the end of the year and at the moment I need the part does not necessarily synonymous ( 2 x 8 GB is not as synonymous bulging - 2 x 16 would be better).
But a nice unit - especially iV with a 35 mm adapter (times you look at the examples on the Redrock Page - the Hammer!).

Greeting
Emu



Antwort von Valentino:

"Anonymous" wrote:
Exactly what I mean:
All HD cams are scrap.

So there would be times I am not so far from the window lean as far as I'm already synonymous of test images of journals have seen clearly is the HVX200 HDV blurred than the competition. I myself have been synonymous a few test shots with the HVX200 and I made the following findings that:
Class Optics
mediocre image-stabilizing
-very complicated user menu
best-mode recording in 720p
-1080i mode is not great quality profit
maximum 16-Mininuten in 720/50p mode with two 8GB cards (32 min at 25pn)
-very nice Farbwiebergabe
Picture-contrast
practical Cine-Gama and News Preferences
variable frame rates in the price class unique
-very large quantities of data -> known archiving problem
Post-processing is not as computationally intensive
-very high noise in dark image parts
LowLight Verhlaten-bad, very noisy and already s.6dB
-unwieldy body -> "dicke Berta" of a Sony Broadcast Employees baptized ;-)
Fire-with the doors is the camera almost no longer in the hands
Sharpness and Aperture-remote

What synonymous still would be to say that the DVCProHD codec something in years (he was one of the first) and is of the Panasonic tape recorder was developed. There is already a nine synonymous Version of DVCProHD namely DVCProHD EX.

"Anonymous" wrote:
I hope that in 10 years HD is mature, and I will ne Cam for life growth may


Hmm somehow hear you s.wie the "soap boss" and I wonder somehow, it's really still people there is always something new to wait, because all updates (HDV or DVCProHD) is complete garbage.
What are you working now? with 35mm? because only then is your statement a little sense. I suspect but rather that you're one of those a GS500 his own calls.

Greeting

Tino



Antwort von Hollinizer:

[quote = "Valentino"] [But I rather suspect that you're one of those a gs500 at home. [/ quote]
.

Jap because you lying garnicht times as bad. I turn but synonymous with 8mm. What I wanted to say is that most consumer HDV cams are only Verarsche. For approval, where it says "Full HD" is cheating (projection). For better Vieleicht is not the case, but the movements are so blurred (due to 25pf). Who is currently in Full Quality HDV wil turn, because of the attacks sure to HCX 200th








Antwort von Hollinizer:

HVX 200 sorry



Antwort von Wolfpeter-Hans-Dieter:

Because he is right! Ist doch scheiße I now if I ne eg H1 for 7000 ¬ and then buy even more motion blur hab. Since I would prefer something synonymous to renounce and overall sharpness but not least Bewegungsunschärfen and shakes have no picture.



Antwort von Valentino:

"Anonymous" wrote:

Jap because you lying garnicht times as bad. I turn but synonymous with 8mm. What I wanted to say is that most consumer HDV cams are only Verarsche. For approval, where it says "Full HD" is cheating (projection). For better Vieleicht is not the case, but the movements are so blurred (due to 25pf). Who is currently in Full Quality HDV wil turn, because of the attacks sure to HCX 200th

Oh yes, does well when some people see through so quickly ;-)
The Sonyand as they are all hot, even Panasonic's consumer customers especially in the beginner equipment with the label "FULL HD" to attract is generally known.
That, however, even in Vollprofie reserved (HDCAM, VariCam, etc.) are not genuine "FULL HD" cameras are synonymous, but you should be known.
What you always with the motion blur at 25p did is a mystery to me, because this is since it gives the movie and has nothing to do with HD or HDV to do, which is how it is.
Quite apart from the HVX200 is not HDV recording but in DVC PRO HD format, there are so synonymous in the area reserved HDV cameras of JVC (HD200 series) in the 50p and 60p recording can. These cameras have, according to test even a sharper picture than the HVX200 and is still sometimes quite wrongly as a DV Camera insulted.
Thus, but then the motion blur and vexing problem of the table.
Perhaps something like this now sound conceited, but I have all the fewest HD (V) cameras very intensively tested and may thus synonymous me a picture of all cameras do. For you, I am not even sure if you ever have a good HD (V) Camera in hand did.

"Wolf-Peter Hans-Dieter" wrote:
Because he is right! Ist doch scheiße I now if I ne eg H1 for 7000 ¬ and then buy even more motion blur hab. Since I would prefer something synonymous to renounce and overall sharpness but not least Bewegungsunschärfen and shakes have no picture.

The dear Lord Peter Wolf, Hans-Dieter is not much better and sounds as if he s.als a parrot repeats everything. I voted with an XL-H1 only recently a documentary rotated (HDV 50i) and have not yet determined Bewegungsunschärfen can imagine.

Now a serious issue both s.euch; Which HD (V) cameras have you already gerarbeite and how long?

Greeting

Tino



Antwort von Urs:

I still have with HDV Camera None worked. But to me, the test videos of XL H1 and co in order to be able to say that HDV is not yet mature. Recently I've extracted the Canon HDV XL H1 seen and was surprised of the gruesome unschärfe among pans.



Antwort von Valentino:

"Anonymous" wrote:
I still have with HDV Camera None worked. But to me, the test videos of XL H1 and co in order to be able to say that HDV is not yet mature. Recently I've extracted the Canon HDV XL H1 seen and was surprised of the gruesome unschärfe among pans.


I think this Ausssage is not much to add. Has never seen such a HDV camera and will be tried not synonymous, because he is of a fuzzy swing anyone has seen. This person knows he probably does not even know and not synonymous, the vieleich s.Autofokus or an incorrect setting may be.

So according to the motto: "Oh, I've heard synonymous, when driving the people killed and so will never drive a car."

Perhaps it is me with my HDV recordings to something you übergzeugen, where I wahrschneinlich could begin immediately synonymous with the wall to speak ;-)

If interested simply email to:

el_valentino s.web dot de

Ps: The blurring may be synonymous with the Swing by a bad deinterlacer of the LCD TV which, as synonymous in the computer software.



Antwort von wolfgang:

Valentino,

one certainly true: for every interlaced format will reduce the lines of resolution interlaced flicker from - and of course that is at 1080 50i very well be the case. This is the reason why 1080 50i can not be better than 720p, what resolution the lines are concerned. But it is just a consumer format - and na?

Otherwise I give thee, but rather here people talk once again of HDV, although no actual experience with HDV have - but darfür even know what all this for a dis ... should be.

That such discussions were absurd gabs on Slashcam often - da gehts seems not to engage on substantive content exchange. There is only one HD acquisition format discredited, which hold more compressed, and for pro / consumer has been developed. Can it be that perhaps this format but for some professional seems a bit threatening?



Antwort von Markus:

"Wolf-Peter Hans-Dieter" wrote:
Ist doch scheiße I now if I ne eg H1 for 7000 ¬ and then buy even more motion blur hab.

Motion blur is always (no preference whether it is a camera with film-KB, a 35-mm, DV - HDV - or DVCProHD camera involved) if the exposure time is too long and / or movement is too fast, to subjectively sharp to be displayed. This has but with HD (V) nothing to do.

Link:




Antwort von camworks:

I think the guys are talking of the unschärfe, when HDV is generated to assist in rapid motion in the picture (whether now the camera moves to the swing or the only real motive is no preference) the data on Max 25MBit hold them.



Antwort von Valentino:

"camworks" wrote:
I think the guys are talking of the unschärfe, when HDV is generated to assist in rapid motion in the picture (whether now the camera moves to the swing or the only real motive is no preference) the data on Max 25MBit hold them.

I know the problem is just this blur to me until now only on Sony promotional material of the HVR-Z1 ins Auge gefallen. Until now, I use this effect but not for Canon cameras or the new Sony HDV models observed.
The reason is I think s.den 25MBit not synonymous, because synonymous with XDCAM HD at 18Mbit movements can look good. The reason is I believe in something "bad" codec engine of the first Sony HDV cameras and the Halbbilderverfahren, synonymous with the computer there is this effect, it is only thanks to the low resolution is not so striking.

Another cause is that a lot of the HDV material on a plasma or LCD device and want to examine it through the deinterlacer to temporary blurred comes.
So very simplified deinterlace the following happens when he has half as interpolated, which is a full-created. Is the picture but still and it moves as good as nothing, the two fields together, and both images together into a full set and not interpolated lines. The reason for this presumption, since this blur effect on an HD-tube as well as not to recognize.

Greeting

Tino








Antwort von masterkillmore:

Are there improvements Now what the HDV codecs are concerned.
I have a SonyHDR-HC1 and need for rapid movements not look to the compression artifacts to be found. Would be interesting to know whether there are such boxes synonymous with camcorders like the Canon XH-A1 there.

As for the images concerned vermatschten I think the synonymous, either with the monitor, the video player or with the HDV codec has to do something.

Gruß Benny



Antwort von Pete82:

And in comparison to the JVC HD110, HD111 or HD250 gesehn? Which would you prefer times except that I am at a complete JVC if synonymous expensive lens range available. Is the HVX synonymous here, the only software in its class?



Antwort von JMitch:

when I make a fx7/v1 tv via HDMI s.einen subscribe
and I live the building see what data is there
transferred?
gruß cj



Antwort von Valentino:

"Pete82" wrote:
And in comparison to the JVC HD110, HD111 or HD250 gesehn? Which would you prefer times except that I am at a complete JVC if synonymous expensive lens range available. Is the HVX synonymous here, the only software in its class?

From the quality and the 50p mode, since I would recommend the JVC HD201, because clearly the 50 frames a quality profit. From the sharpness of her is the camera with the standard lens with a better than HD110. Comparison with the HVX200, but the picture is almost as sharp and with the correct broadcast optics, triple the cost of the camera to see the pictures even better. What is synonymous not forget, the JVC all frame rates of 24p and 60p recording, which the HVX200 (only 25p & 50p) has been prohibited. In addition, the camera without any pixel shift works because the native CCDs Resolutionvon 1280 times 720 pixels has. The only camera I know of under 20 thousand euros, the synonymous all image types can be progressive record of the Panasonic HPX500.
The difference with the HD251 (HD250 which are located in Germany not to buy), is that it is a studio port and an HD-SDI output has. With the new AJA I / O and a MacBook Pro could almost uncompressed codec in the new Apple record. The picture certainly looks better than the HVX200.
With the new cutting systems such as the new liquid is then synonymous to handle 50p.
"Anonymous" wrote:
when I make a fx7/v1 tv via HDMI s.einen subscribe
and I live the building see what data is there
transferred?
gruß cj

So the picture is one of the FX7/V1 directly on the CIPS CMOS A / D converter in 4:2:2 with 8bit output and then output HDMI uncompressed s.den where next. The data is probably in just under 5 Gigabit / sec. With a corresponding map of Black Magic, it is possible these data with Final Cut Pro in DVCProHD, JPEG200, the new HiRes Apple code (only Final Cut Pro 6) and unkompirmiert recorded.
In Adobe Premiere is the only recording in uncompressed and JPEG2000 possible.

Greeting

Valentino



Antwort von Frank B.:

Hello,

Please excuse if I am here as an amateur look hanging, but I understand the interrelationships grad does not really.

Starting the thread so that it is alleged, the HVX 200 was the unifying true HDV camcorder, because it with 100Mbit / s in 25P can record. Thus, he is no longer the HDV standard, which is therefore a Verleich of apples and pears should be.
Moreover, the amount of data so in case of a 100Mbit / s recording substantially higher. After how many seconds because then it is an 8 GB card full? In this case, an external fire doors or other HD recorder is absolutely necessary?
I still see it this way: The HDV - the format is primarily an amateur format that is synonymous with regard to other targets, such as storage and manageable data rates, has been developed. An amateur can not normally be such a camera like the HVX 200 plus professional HD recorder (for 100Mbit / s) plus the appropriate Schitter / storage hardware afford.
The absolute professionals but are now in a price category of care that are far above the HVX 200 is located.
For me (as an amateur) that Cam would be absolutely no alternative, since it not even on HDV tape can record.
When the image quality like you would all be right. Fully exhausted, it is safe because HDV Cams superior. But with the material must be yes then go next and somehow it must first times can be stored somewhere.
Frank



Antwort von Pete82:

thank valentino!



Antwort von JMitch:

Of course, the HVX 200 to tape record. Have recently at the Panasonic rumgeguckt Page and accessories in the list of HVX 200 mini DV cassettes found. I got me again the datasheet angeguckt but found nothing that HVX can record to tape. What's going on? Can it now or not? Would not a mini-DV cassettes as accessories, if you do not appeal ...



Antwort von JMitch:

Recording on MiniDV only DV, not HDV.



Antwort von Bernd E.:

"Anonymous" wrote:
Recording on MiniDV only DV, not HDV.

... and on tape is not synonymous or DVCPro DVCPro50. Detailed evidence is Ushi:

http://panasonic-broadcast.de/index.cfm?uuid=28F781BB9D374650ADDB1E547848CE13&pid=11790&catid=4282&ClassID=10

Gruß Bernd E.








Antwort von Valentino:

@ Frank B
The HVX200 is not HDV camcorder and it will not be synonymous, although she possesses a computer disk. It stores video in its own Panasonic DVCPro HD Fromat that initially for professional use has been developed. The Camera is but because of their size Picture and not a professional camera, as well as a special only a semi-DVX100 Camera. The process is not a major problem, the data rate is only two to four times as high as in HDV and it is because the individual pictures better cut, only to Programs, AVID Xpress or Final Cut Pro are slightly more expensive than Pinnacle Studio 10th For the cut, but no one needs high-end editing system.
Also the harddrive Gates of Fire is almost the same as the HDV version, only this has a different software / firmware, the hardware is the same.

"Anonymous" wrote:
Of course, the HVX 200 to tape record. Have recently at the Panasonic rumgeguckt Page and accessories in the list of HVX 200 mini DV cassettes found. I got me again the datasheet angeguckt but found nothing that HVX can record to tape.

Yes the camera can record on tape but only in SD quality, that is quite normal in the DV format, so in principle, as with the DVX100. HDV can the HVX200 does not record.



Antwort von JMitch:

"Valentino" wrote:

The HVX200 is not HDV camcorder and it will not be synonymous, although she possesses a computer disk. It stores video in its own Panasonic DVCPro HD Fromat that initially for professional use has been developed.


Yes, exactly what I said. The HVX 200 with a 1 oa SonyFX HDV camcorders to compare is a comparison between apples and pears. I mean, it is not quite fair, since it is basically a different system. Consequently, the statement of the thread starter wrong that the HVX 200 The best HDV camera is. It is not a HDV camera.
Thank you for your enlightening words.

Frank



Antwort von JMitch:

The end product is HDV. And if the camera now DVC pro HD or otherwise irgentwas record is really me schnurz no preference. What rauskommt this is crucial. Otherwise, yes, there would be no HDV films on television, because no profit is working with HD. And since it is no preference whether the camera on P2 card or tape recording. But s.ende HD comes out. So for me the Panasonic designed a HDV camera.



Antwort von Bernd E.:

"Anonymous" wrote:
... no profit ... working with HD, but HD s.ende comes out. So for me the Panasonic designed a HDV camera.

Am I the only one of these words does not make sense there? ;-)

Gruß Bernd E.



Antwort von JMitch:

synonymous if the HVX200 is not HDV camera
but can they be with the HDV cameras compare
as it is in the camcorder test
http://www.camcorder-test.com/
was made.
what is crucial in s.ende rauskommt.
gruß cj



Antwort von Frank B.:

"Anonymous" wrote:

what is crucial in s.ende rauskommt.
gruß cj


That I see is not so. Crucially, what can come back out. There is already more of a shoe draus. I can so synonymous with my FX 1 in DV format and on a tube monitor. There are no Nachzieheffekte, blurring or artifacts visible. But for me, I have not increased. Nobody is still an expensive purchase Profikam in HD, if the target computer product only should be (I have now said something exaggerated). Why should I buy for a camera, the 100Mbit / s and can and 25p in HDV format s.Ende remain at 25MBit / s and 50i? The HVX 200 for me, makes sense only if the actual production in the format remains high and it may require off in the lower quality format. Stored and processed, but always in the most high-quality format that is not HDV Camera dominated.
If I but with the HVX 200 so would make to get the memory card with the camera not far away. A hard drive is absolutely essential to what the price again increases dramatically.

Frank



Antwort von PowerMac:

Nope. The workflow with the P2 card workflow is approaching s.den of film, so P2 m. M. EB after the operation too risky and difficult (expensive anyway) is.



Antwort von JMitch:

"Frank B." wrote:
Why should I buy for a camera, the 100Mbit / s and can and 25p in HDV format s.Ende remain at 25MBit / s and 50i? The HVX 200 for me, makes sense only if the actual production in the format remains high and it may require off in the lower quality format.
Stored and processed, but always in the most high-quality format that is not HDV Camera dominated.


clearly would not be inferior format record
synonymous if it were better, but still can be
final result (on my hd uncompressed) clipweise compare
synonymous when it s.anfang not the same as art and has been created.
and if the resolution because of hvx zb. not enough is just a
assessment of possible underlying ....
as already described above, it is possible via
HDMI and black magic card from a HDV cam a high signal
to get.
gruß cj



Antwort von JMitch:

"Anonymous" wrote:
synonymous if the HVX200 is not HDV camera
but can they be with the HDV cameras compare
as it is in the camcorder test
http://www.camcorder-test.com/
was made.
what is crucial in s.ende rauskommt.
gruß cj


Can it be that since the HVX a mistake "reprinted" is? CCD format but should be 16:9 and not 4:3, or what I have not noticed?








Antwort von Valentino:

"Anonymous" wrote:
The end product is HDV. And if the camera now DVC pro HD or otherwise irgentwas record is really me schnurz no preference. What rauskommt this is crucial. Otherwise, yes, there would be no HDV films on television, because no profit is working with HD. And since it is no preference whether the camera on P2 card or tape recording. But s.ende HD comes out. So for me the Panasonic designed a HDV camera.

Ah help the final product is NOT HDV, but DVC PRO HD.
To put it in now to get your heads, HDV GOP MPEG2 codec on the DV tape with a 4:2:0 Frabsampling records. Everything else is not HDV and DVC PRO HD certainly not. DVC PRO HD is a codec of your own Panasonic first with a 4:2:2 Frabsampling works and no GOP structure and aufweist frames so similar as in JPEG2000 compressed.
I hope that everyone has understood now and again just for the not-so-nots

HDV is not HDV and DVCPRO DVC PRO HD is not HDV





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