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Sony HDR FX1 mit Fehlkonstruktion

Re: FX1 SonyHDR with bad design



Frage von Christoph:
Juni 2005

SonyHDR FX1 HDV Camera with bad design.
Warning s.alle any purchaser of a HDR FX1: The display of this camera shows only 80% of the filmed image! Unfortunately, this error can be recognized only if the clips into the editing program loads and still remembers s.den selected section in the recording. For somewhat serious working filmmakers who choose deliberately to the Recording for the section, this means that later in the editing program crop the image as much as 20% have and that means 20% of the much vaunted HDV quality (, or approximately 400 ' 00 pixel) in the bin! Who can believe it hardly synonymous, movies with his FX1 a scale and look at the result in the computer, PC, for example in Liquid Edition 6.1 on Mac as with i-Movie.

Asked about the problem of customer service of Sony Switzerland has reacted as follows: 1 "We have never heard of, which may well be not at all", 2 (; After consultation with the repair service Switzerland) "which can be adjusted, a small thing", 3rd (; Repair service Switzerland) "We can not adjust, we have sent the camera to the factory in Alsace, there can set the 100% pure, 4 (; Work Alsace) "Sorry, we can not set", 5th (; Sony Switzerland) "Thank you for your tests, I was not aware of the problem and have learned. I can offer you a replacement, unfortunately, my boss has meant that holding an amateur camera, and there was such a departure was completely normal. "


unikator-IN-gmx.ch



Antwort von Markus:

For the avoidance of double work, if someone thinks s.die overscan story ...
http://www.videoforum.de/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=camcorder&action=display&num=1118171249&start=0&SID =

www.behrendt.tv
markus-IN-behrendt.tv



Antwort von BPHennek:

So, if in the view finder or on the monitor with this much publicity and pressure awarded very expensive HDV camcorder can see 20% less in the recording, then of course the cheese!

Why are the magazines have really always cheered on the FX1 and not shown?









Antwort von MarkusH:

"(; User Above) wrote:

: Furthermore, it is still used as a filmmaker, not as subjects to
: Select, that is 2 pixels is next to the image edge lampost ...


So I must be the first Stephan geben.Filme certainly not giving up yet, but one thing was explained to me of a pro: choose your subjects carefully and the edge (; very outside have said) is taboo!

Did even the FX1 and is synonymous to me have noticed that so many subjects do not fully what the LCD display has ...
But I personally am with the quality and handling of this camera very happy why is it on various "red carpet" deposits of the celebrities on television used synonymous (;? Synonymous though this is likely to be the VX1, or how to say .. .* g *)

LG
Markus H

markus.hoeckner-IN-sbg.ac.at



Antwort von Axel:

-AT-Stephan
"(; User Above) wrote:

:
: It's obvious that the normal DVD in the muddy HD plasma looks like ...


That is precisely. We speak here of a giant plasma (; about 110 diagonal, type name I've forgotten) of LG, a discontinued model, the brave ¬ 1,600 costs and with 1200irgendwas possible resolution here of comparing me with one - noah Regulation, 3000 ¬ expensive? - New Panasonic, something smaller to something in 1300 resolution. The latter showed a DVD 520p (; with a SonyDVD in Progressive Fashion on YUV). What is the HD standard really so unique that it is because the higher resolution? Please get me wrong: I'm just asking.
:
I have to fuss about the already progressive in PAL times are not really
: Seen ...

I do not synonymous. My colleagues with their projectors and progressive ... When playing DVD movies, well, they look a little more for movies (and we are all full-time projectionist), but recordings of the XL1S? No, honestly, because I am ashamed of the VX2000 bit no. What's wrong?
:
: If only time that one "Normalo" as synonymous genuine
"1920x1080" TV can buy without having to take out a loan ...

We show the time "Star Wars" in this format on a 160-square-screen (and the server lists the film unexplained legally under MPEG2 23p). The sharpness is at least as good as 35mm film, not to mention the whole range of contrast and image stability (; the movie, however one can endure only in terms of technical interest). I believe that such a resolution is given away for a home-plasma, as would have been a power-projectors (; and a private cinema) have.

Nochwas: If I am not interested in this camera so I would not ask so many times.

Peace, Axel



axel schreiter-AT-t-online.de



Antwort von Stephan:

Why do you compare the playback of HD content on a plasma,
with the normal playback of standard DVDs on another plasma?

This has nothing at all but similar ...

It's obvious that the normal DVD in the muddy HD plasma looks like ...

What has all to do with Sonyzu?

I find 1080i always more interesting than 720p ...

First, has always been much interlaced with movements
shown beautiful ...
(Or if not come by any processing to twisted dominance)

Second, the HD is really for me ...

What are already 720 instead of 576? Not a whole lot more ...

And all I have until now "progressive" is seen, for me
jerky just been ...

May the "progressive" fanatics send me to hell ...

I have the fuss to have progressive in PAL times are not really
understood ...

But to each his own ...

If only time that one "Normalo" as synonymous genuine
can buy "1920x1080" TV without having to take out a loan ...

On the current "HD" 720ern can the two standards are not always
really compare ...





Antwort von BPHennek:

Quote from: www.hdtv-forum.ch

"How much better than the HDTV standard 720p is 1080i?

Under no circumstances. Which of the two standards, the better results, the experts argue. The much larger number of lines can initially expect a greater focus at 1080i. But strictly speaking, be seen later in the "interlaced" display of 1080i only the 540 lines of a field and for a moment the second half of the picture with the same number of lines. merge only thanks to the inertia of the human visual system, these two fields subjective to a full screen. In addition, the fields for display on displays and projectors to be converted into frames, which is not without its problems. The progressive view of 720p, however, shows only frames with 720 lines. It brings so many advantages with quality that most people feel both format equivalent. Apart from this, let frames compress much more efficiently. TV stations can broadcast both format receivers can both show format. "

That's what I've read several times.

For HD Ready TV with a screen size home of 94-106cm 720p well enough from completely!





Antwort von Axel:

-AT-Christoph.
Thanks for the link. Well, here is probably no uncertain and clearly said, 720p is subjective, of the same resolution as 1080i at significantly lower memory requirements (; so synonymous data stream). Having never a really convincing plasma screen had seen before, and this is "only" 720p, I will eventually but to 1080p; wait (the Panasonic AG VX200, which will have 4:2:2 color sampling synonymous, good for composite). The viewfinder would have been bearable for me.

axel schreiter-AT-t-online.de



Antwort von Christoph:

Axel, concerning your question, I suggest you read the following link: www.hdtv-forum.ch
In the category of questions you will find answers to the technical basics.
That problem is that Sonyin record 1080 is not only that of Sony. The technology to record in HDV-resolution frames seems at the moment are not yet at a reasonable price to have.
Christoph


unikator-IN-gmx.ch



Antwort von Axel:

-AT-Christoph:
I do not take it crooked, was only actually a Frustrülpser. I like many are trying to do here, with little opportunity to work their AV expensive hobby (; with-) finance. Because it annoys me of course if a reasonably affordable part (; I even at the dealer for 3000 ¬ get why it should cost you 5000?) Once again is exposed as inadequate. Of course the story with the viewfinder is a real shortcoming.

But a question s.den professional: the camera has not a much greater problem - apart of the MPEG-recording times?

To explain: In the same subject history, in which I have tested the camera, was issued an LG Plasma Television, and the image blew me away literally. Was connected to an HDTV hard drive, the movie was a potpourri of sky-diving, tropical fish, colorful butterflies and similar stuff.

Later, I went again and asked for. The seller told me that the resolution is 720p and my YUV connections pointed to the back. All other plasma (; synonymous of something even smaller Panasonic Viera) showed Lord of the Rings DVD of comparatively muddy swirling around right with clouds of liquid crystals.

Can you tell me whether the "p" in HD is the great charm? DVD can be put to good at shooting synonymous play progressive, but such a stark increase in quality you find not there. Is that the problem of Sony, that here again only one "i" was taken?

Again sorry for the moaning. Forums are democratic, there must of course be prepared for anything.


axel schreiter-AT-t-online.de



Antwort von Christoph:

"(; User Above) wrote:

I believe it synonymous so Christopher. But for an amateur it is damn well important
: Take a good image, within the meaning of astronomical calculations, the exact
: To be determined image area (; and it should be for a professional ALSO). As some
: Outpost of note is the full and precise image detail academic anyway, unless you
: Want to provide not legally laughable with only high definition computer monitors.
: Sure would be analogous to the SLR's motto: WhatYouSeeIsWhatYouGet, but
Is it not so? How many people will in the years to an HDV movie
: On a "underscan monitor" (; obsolete, since only TFT displays
: View can be used)? Might be interesting to know how the
: Average crop a 16:9 plasma TV is or will be. Maybe buy
: The Sony monitor yes indeed exactly from what these boxes show then synonymous.
: If I get a DVD of me at a friend on a small Philips-TV
: (; Fisheye-tube) look at, I get the puke, how much cutting off this thing then.
: The purest Vignette.
: But it is in this forum: Purist professionals to amateurs rub always liked
: Their inadequate equipment under his nose. You have been right, her statement. See
: To us, that we remain a bit of fun and we will not sour synonymous.


Maybe I'm in this forum actually s.falschen site. I produce professionally and was due to the advertising, the test reports and the recommendations of my professional provider expects that to me in a camera for 5000th - ¬ appear non-amputee pictures. The joy s.Shooting I will not spoil, was the meaning of my information, to protect potential purchasers of this camera before the big frustration.

Christoph

unikator-IN-gmx.ch



Antwort von Axel:

I believe you synonymous so, Christopher. But for an amateur it's probably damn important to take a good image, but to determine the meaning of astronomical calculations, the exact image section (, and it should be for a professional ALSO). How many outposts noted the full and precise picture is academic anyway, if you do not want to provide legally laughable with only high definition computer monitors. Clearly should be analogous to the SLR's motto: WhatYouSeeIsWhatYouGet, but is not it so? How many people will in the years to an HDV movie on a "underscan monitor" (; obsolete, since only TFT displays can be used) See? Might be interesting to know how the average crop is a 16:9 plasma TV, or will be. Perhaps the Sony monitor is yes indeed precisely what these boxes show then synonymous. If I get a DVD of me at a friend on a small Philips-TV (; Fisheye-tube) look at, I get the puke, how much cutting off this thing then. The purest Vignette.
But it is in this forum: Purist professionals to amateurs rub always liked their inadequate equipment under his nose. You have been right, her statement. Let us see that we remain a bit of fun and we will not sour synonymous.


axel schreiter-AT-t-online.de








Antwort von Christoph:

but inadvertently "won" material makes
"(; User Above) wrote:

: From 20% in any case!

Then your film two standards (; a vertical, one horizontal in the image). First you write down you how many millimeters of vertical scales, respectively. horizontally on the display visible. The two numbers are multiplied to you the results in the area of the screen display area. Then you do the same calculation with that image section, which you will be shown in the computer. If you then effectively captured the image (, so that the computer) as 100% and accept with the one shown on the display part compare, you come to this sad 20%.
If you are interested s.meinen test images, you'll like this at <A HREF="mailto:unikator -BEI- gmx.ch"> unikator-request AT-gmx.ch </ A>.

Christoph

unikator-IN-gmx.ch



Antwort von Axel:

I have just left the shop, where you have permitted me, with the HR FX1E record on a separate tape and to capture the spot on a Powerbook. These posts in mind, I turned the monitor to me and went to the recording with the index finger tip s.den image along edges in the absence of a test pattern template. The recorded material was in fact more, ie, the fingertip touched the edge s.None place, but that inadvertently "won" in no case material makes up 20%! It's not as if the monitor is the title safe area View and record the full screen. I filmed the friendly adviser and a little waved wildly through the store to see how the image looks like in motion.
Monitor this story may disturb some, if that is alone, it would almost double the price I do not for the Z1 value. Since I could flirt with even more expected in the autumn Panasonic AG HVX200, the price would probably be comparable.
The statement "was a typical amateur camera" does this perspective. However, the HDV image with a direct Comparison is dependent but significantly better than DV-image of the VX2100, which is so well established as a professional tool for many applications. Measurements can testify as much.


axel schreiter-AT-t-online.de



Antwort von Stephan:

I can only agree with Mark!

The thing with the visible and invisible areas of the image knows
all only too well with the video s.PC works ...

If it is now taken very seriously, as the author of this thread
then we have always cheated and had no synonymous
720x576 DV resolution, but a good deal less synonymous,
if one sticks to the safe, visible ...

But that's penny-pinching!

Moreover, it is still used as a filmmaker, not as subjects to
To choose that is 2 pixels is next to the image edge lampost ...

The danger then arises that it was always ...

And so if something is avoided, we need the thing
in the full representation (; eg beamer) prune synonymous ...

And another note: What does the full HDV resolution View?

Which screen, or projector which has really 1920x1080er resolution?

The bob up and down but mostly around at all 1280xirgendwas ... or are priceless ...

So synonymous only scaled down everything ... Because you need to make the couple of pixels
of the FX1-View Finder swallowed synonymous not make a fuss ...
(; Have pursued with the other forum)

MfG

Stephan




Antwort von Berti27:

Each camera has a certain underscan Nonslip (; of the amateur cameras) I have the FX1 and get along well with that, you must just know.
Ifs very disturbing closing I just headed for a Trans Video Rainbow II 7 "TFT with underscan. Then I know what I'm filming.

In essence, but can be get by with a little exercise with the fx1 display well. I do not think the HVX-200 underscan tft have.

Regards, Robert



Antwort von LeVasseur:

Perhaps this software will help:

http://www.seriousmagic.com/dvrack.cfm

at least if you're willing to lug a laptop yet ....

Greetings from Ruessel

http://www.fxsupport.de/hc1/index.html



Antwort von felix123:

Yes, it is much less displayed on the monitor. As a percentage I can not express it, however. And that's really annoying.

With the Z1, there is a full-scan mode, which I always use to the whole image on the display have. I do not know if that is synonymous with the FX1 implemented.



Antwort von idrisi:

"Christoph" wrote:
but inadvertently "won" material makes
"(; User Above) wrote:

: From 20% in any case!

Then your film two standards (; a vertical, one horizontal in the image). First you write down you how many millimeters of vertical scales, respectively. horizontally on the display visible. The two numbers are multiplied to you the results in the area of the screen display area. Then you do the same calculation with that image section, which you will be shown in the computer. If you then effectively captured the image (, so that the computer) as 100% and accept with the one shown on the display part compare, you come to this sad 20%.
If you are interested s.meinen test images, you'll like this at <A HREF="mailto:unikator -BEI- gmx.ch"> unikator-request AT-gmx.ch </ A>.

Christoph

unikator-IN-gmx.ch


I have this procedure times s.meiner Panasonic NV-GS400 (and only DV) and tried to get a drop of 12%. So I can live quite well. 20% I would find a bit too much.

idirisi



Antwort von PowerMac:

By the way, is from 50 full 1080p images. The HVX200 does NOT 1080p. But 25PsF. That is, 25 frames into 50 fields written in 1080i.



Antwort von wolfgang:

At 1080 25p to expect probably the same behavior as at 720 25p. What of the EBU is recommended, therefore, not synonymous 720 25p, 50p, but 720.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds15637.html

A really good study on this subject can be found here (, but registration is required):

http://www.film-tv-video.de/reportdetails+M57e8e82c6f9.html

Conclusion: 720 compared with 1080 50i 50p has nowirklichen disadvantages - at least not in vision devices to 50 inches. Where one should not forget that the 720p JVC camcorder film of just 25p in 720 - and so it goes in the direction containing more than 720 film look 50p.

And with the FX1 behavior you will probably have to live - or you are confined to the HC1 or the Z1. The large overscan area in the viewfinder is unpleasant, but that's been known for some time and really noNeuigkeit in this thread more here.









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