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Re: RED Cam auf Landshuter Medientag

Re: RED cam on Landshuter Media Day



Frage von Valentino:
Februar 2008

Beautiful love the Red One. Because I work with a lender, I had the thing once a day in her hand and she found a semi Profie Camera but not for the class Profieberreich.
Minus point of the chamber is Unique:
- Lack Makierung is where the image intensifier, which is in very bad Tiefschärfe and despair makes everyone Fokuspuller / Kameraassi.

- Only for the Complete 4K chip is used for 2K nurnoch ungfähr used the scene from the S16. A Downkonvert of 4K to 2K or HD is not possible, Internal -> 16mm Lenses must be used bie 2k.

- Chip The image intensifier is not the size of a 4 perf 3 perf film but probably so true Cinemascope is not possible, such as the D20.

- With Red Batteries not turn the camera off to have most of the half of the capacity, because it only recognizes the battery as a power port and not as orgonalen Battery.

- The camera is very warm and this is likely to change and to the back flange.

- The camera takes almost a minute to boot!

- The AVID codec HDNx we do not yet support the import and synonymous in Final Cut Pro is not the truth.


Wen interesiert the theme Red One should be synonymous times the article "The acid test," read in the production of the Professor fälschlichweißer but synonymous of a Cinema Scope picture geredetwird. For CS the imager, aspect ratio of 4:3 would aufweiesen, but this is not the case.



Antwort von steffunk:

For us, the camera since about 1 months in operation, and sorry, of semi-professional can not there be any question!
This is clearly a professional camera, everyone would be semi-professional with this camera simply can not cope ...
OK, perhaps in the high-end film industry not just the absolute best camera. But when you play an HD-Cam as a professional-looking camera (; which you did not know I speak), then the RED One is more than professional!

The picture quality is stunning. The possibilities of the raw images must be developed ingenious and already works quite well, although beta status.
Also not to be despised: for this price is simply not comparable!

Focus Puller comes with our budget SOWISO no question that makes equal with the cameraman. This is currently a bit difficult because the display is not really convincing. Let us hope that soon the viewfinder comes out, which will make all previous viewfinder in the shade.

See you soon,
Steffunk

www.elementp.ch



Antwort von Valentino:

"steffunk" wrote:

Focus Puller comes with our budget SOWISO no question that makes equal with the cameraman. This is currently a bit difficult because the display is not really convincing. Let us hope that soon the viewfinder comes out, which will make all previous viewfinder in the shade.

You are so poor off you can not even afford a Fucuspuller, where there are the good quite rare. Aber mal ne quite silly question, why not be a simple enough when you HPX3000 or F900 for your application, even if the cameraman himself the focus needs to go. Alas, like so ne ne s.besten XDCAM HD with the class Autofocus Lens ;-)
On the subject of software I need for 4 min 4k material about one to two hours at this fast in DPX files umzuwandel to two hours and the s.einem 8 Core Mac Pro with Raid!! This should be of benefit? So for one Drehverhälnis of 20:1 with documentary or feature films only biste mal for a time in the postpro. busy.
What you the customer happy times indeed synonymous silent, that is the Red codec is now nothing more than a kind of JPEG2000 codec and nothing else.

And to your company, and probably your employer that you want lußtig yes verrkaufen the customer to Red, but honestly once the sentence "For the customer unbeatable picture quality does not arise, despite the additional costs" so says it explains everything from why and synonymous Then of course, no more money for the Fokuspuller exists.
Ah, yet another question ne ye then match the RED synonymous s.Ultra the appropriate sentence, MasterCard or Coke S4 Primes?





Antwort von thedirector:

If you already here appeals on the HPX3000 ...

If you look at the whole thing a little thought, the HPX3000 actually has a better picture than the Red One?

The Red has only one chip with 4K.
The P2 has 3 chips with 2.2mp.

The Red has thus more pixels on one, I guess, equally sized sensor which leads to increased image noise.
In addition, the P2 processed the 3 primary colors, depending on a single chip.

Similarly, the Red "only" 30mb / s. The P2 has 100mb / s. Thus, the Panasonic has fewer pixels with more reserves for Color correction ...

When I read here that render queue for 4min first 1-2 hours, then the P2 is much better because I fairly quickly because the files on the Mac was synonymous and the Final Cut Pro.

Furthermore, one can, as far as I know to use only one card to record and time again because they have not so much space, you need to forcibly change after a few minutes there and the map (, ok, they are) much cheaper than the P2.

But with the P2 can be theoretically infinite shooting, you have five slots where you can just switch the cards without interrupting the recording to have.

Viewed as I'm concerned, the HPX3000 a better picture with fewer pixels.

Währe still interesting, if someone up there might compare in practice (; image quality) ...



Antwort von thedirector:

What have I forgotten ^ ^. Pixels are not everything ...
But the whole time comparing with the DSLRs.

The Nikon D3 with 12MP is a lot better photos than the comparable Canon Mark III with 18mp, since the Nikon has a larger sensor with fewer pixels -> less noise ...



Antwort von the machine:

"Anonymous" wrote:
If you already here appeals on the HPX3000 ...

If you look at the whole thing a little thought, the HPX3000 actually has a better picture than the Red One?

The Red has only one chip with 4K.
The P2 has 3 chips with 2.2mp.

The Red has thus more pixels on one, I guess, equally sized sensor which leads to increased image noise.
In addition, the P2 processed the 3 primary colors, depending on a single chip.

Similarly, the Red "only" 30mb / s. The P2 has 100mb / s. Thus, the Panasonic has fewer pixels with more reserves for Color correction ...

When I read here that render queue for 4min first 1-2 hours, then the P2 is much better because I fairly quickly because the files on the Mac was synonymous and the Final Cut Pro.

Furthermore, one can, as far as I know to use only one card to record and time again because they have not so much space, you need to forcibly change after a few minutes there and the map (, ok, they are) much cheaper than the P2.

But with the P2 can be theoretically infinite shooting, you have five slots where you can just switch the cards without interrupting the recording to have.

Viewed as I'm concerned, the HPX3000 a better picture with fewer pixels.

Währe still interesting, if someone up there might compare in practice (; image quality) ...


Oh God, that's ll very nice half-or not-knowing what you are most common here!
"The Red thus more pixels on one, I guess the same large sensor which leads to increased image noise.
In addition, the P2 processed the 3 primary colors, depending on a single chip. "
... but do not think knowledge!

Inform yourself better times before you here so one heap sorry, big sh ** ße write.



Antwort von the machine:

In addition, there are not 30 megabits / s data rate at the RED special 30 megabytes / s. .. So much higher than in DVC PRO HD ...
... ouch, your posts have really hurt!



Antwort von B.DeKid:

"Anonymous" wrote:
What have I forgotten ^ ^. Pixels are not everything ...
But the whole time comparing with the DSLRs.

The Nikon D3 with 12MP is a lot better photos than the comparable Canon Mark III with 18mp, since the Nikon has a larger sensor with fewer pixels -> less noise ...


But this time, please post a link or have you read the new photography or testing your statement you are referring to this test??



Antwort von Bernd E.:

"B. DeKid" wrote:
"Anonymous" wrote:
... Canon Mark III with 18mp ...
But this time, please post a link ...

Because it is a "Canon Mark III with 18 megapixel resolution is not at all, will be the beginning's of hard to compare it with the Nikon D3 ;-)

Gruß Bernd E.



Antwort von noobi:

What am I supposed to answer yet?

I mean, to each his own, ok?

I do not really no preference what you are blabbert.

As long as the RED shoots great pictures, and finally the green screen is to punch with very little effort, I do not need no more s.all think the comic, and pixelated blockmässig compress the recording cameras.
Schonmal try out an HD picture to punch a screen? Have fun with the edges ... Especially DVC-Pro is not really HD, 1440 with a factor 1.33. I thought pixel distortions of snow yesterday, and the good old interlaced format. Fortunately, everything is on the RED Progressive. And can we shoot 50 pictures anyway, and although progressive!

Moreover, the procedure REDCODE not a JPEG! It is a wavelet codec that is not compressed in this sh ** ss 16x16 pixel blocks.

Un yes, there are 27 megabytes / s and with no bit, ok? And it is absolutely amazing how much information is there still exist, but in this rather strong compression.

Perhaps something from WAVE codec added (; or something like that)? This was once a competition has to be synonymous in Jpeg and Wavelet compression methods. Was much better than Jpeg, Jpeg, but prevailed anyway. Because of all these writers, perhaps unwitting Forum ...

Well, I wish you much fun in the pixel war, we have behind us :-)


PS: The HPX3000 has only 2 / 3 "chip. Freaks who are still at the age of DigiBeta and stuck on the same chip size or more pixels. Exactly what you accuse the RED as happened with this camera, the HPX3000.
In addition, this costs about double.
Not included with a tape recorder, which brauchts not in the RED. And then all of these tapes, which cost even more synonymous ... No Thanks!

The lenses: When it comes to be rented, no problem. Otherwise, we need the RED Zoomlens 18-50. This is even if slightly blurred in the Comparison of the top lenses, but on PAL sees SOWISO no pig.
Yes, we stop producing mostly for DVD and WEB. When things are supposed to be a cinema spot, we like to have one synonymous FokusPuller and all other drum and turn. Thus, our team is rapidly increased to 20 times people what to shoot DVD is not necessary. You should just be able to think to quite a bit, that's all.



Antwort von Steffunk:

"Anonymous" wrote:
What have I forgotten ^ ^. Pixels are not everything ...
But the whole time comparing with the DSLRs.

The Nikon D3 with 12MP is a lot better photos than the comparable Canon Mark III with 18mp, since the Nikon has a larger sensor with fewer pixels -> less noise ...


The RED has about the same size sensor as the NikonD3, namely Follformat. And the Canon 5D, this has been a long time. Nikon is because Hinterhergehüpft ...



Antwort von B.DeKid:

Bernd ;-) ;-) ;-) Do I look as synonymous
Well then the difference to a EOS 1 Ds III D and a well is rather the one model, therefore, the D is s.Presse and sports photographer and directed that the DS version was probably designed more for studio photography. (; Conclusion to test the Ds from the current photography. The noise has been mentioned on the Nikon is probably synonymous right now but the Nikon is better .... well, that is between Canon and Nikon still such a thing as it but in the end with ner REDONE has nothing to do wen intressierts.

NOTE

Sony brings out new models with 24.8-megapixel Camera
[/ quote]



Antwort von thedirector:

"Anonymous" wrote:
Especially DVC-Pro is not really HD, 1440 with a factor 1.33. I thought pixel distortions of snow yesterday, and the good old interlaced format. Fortunately, everything is on the RED Progressive. And can we shoot 50 pictures anyway, and although progressive!

The HPX3000 AVC Intra progressively increases through 1920 on real and not 1440 with a factor 1.33.

"Anonymous" wrote:
And then all of these tapes, which cost even more synonymous ... No Thanks!

The HPX3000 takes on P2 cards to -> No cost for tapes ...

"Bernd E." wrote:
Because it is a "Canon Mark III with 18 megapixel resolution is not at all, will be the beginning's of hard to compare it with the Nikon D3 ;-)

http://www.toppreise.ch/prod_121505.html
Then there are stop 21.1mp.

"Anonymous" wrote:
PS: The HPX3000 has only 2 / 3 "chip. Freaks who are still at the age of DigiBeta and stuck on the same chip size or more pixels. Exactly what you accuse the RED as happened with this camera, the HPX3000.

It is true that the 2 / 3 "chips have put more pixels, but in proportion with the Red because fewer pixels on it ...
As with the D3 and the Mark III -> less noise with less pixels ...



Antwort von weitwinkel:

4k for the web and DVD is already severe,
but whosoever needs ....
gruß cj

ps. you can say something about the rolling shutter effects was ...
And as one of the so-hand with the filming.



Antwort von thedirector:

With the RED a phenomenon is taken into the video landscape:
Past there were only "divas" in the movie and behind the camera, they do exist appear to be caused only behind the RED Camera ....
... And just now, unfortunately, synonymous in the video field.
This forum holds the still limited .. (;) Nor ...
One would only be perfect ..... if it were still synonymous with the RED of SONY ... it would be for so many people the dream of all dreams come true .... gone (; small blemish in the system).



Antwort von thedirector:

"Anonymous" wrote:
One would only be perfect ..... if it were still synonymous with the RED of SONY ... it would be for so many people the dream of all dreams come true .... gone (; small blemish in the system).

I see the end in a very bitter war of faith ...

;-)



Antwort von Andreas_Kiel:

"Anonymous" wrote:

The lenses: When it comes to be rented, no problem. Otherwise, we need the RED Zoomlens 18-50. This is even if slightly blurred in the Comparison of the top lenses, but on PAL sees SOWISO no pig.

You would need a RED? Well, they can be relatively easy to think a little bit ...



Antwort von steffunk:

Hey, I'm not going to distinguish it ... We are not divas.

The love of the picture, that perhaps lies in us. And that is only really there, since we can rotate with the RED. Imagine a digital Stillimage in best quality, which is moving with 24 images. A dream come true ...

This Forum aggressive mood here prompted me to leave, unfortunately, until further notice any comments here anymore. I'm sorry. But I do not really need ...

Who wants to know more, especially when it comes to constructive thing that can log in like:
st12atgmx.ch

Have fun with this Gedisse .... and bye

PS: Rolling shutter is a drawback. Vibration and rapid pans are not suitable. The RED is not just a handheld camera, as you prefer to fret about what a smaller ... Especially since everything drum and turn synonymous not just ENG Equippers is fit ...



Antwort von smooth-appeal:

Mimosa was no time, that was harmless ;-)

Personally I'm not particularly interested in the RED. Is just outside the reasonable range for my company, and there are some things that bother me definitely s.der Camera.

When I'm s.den purchase a camera will think this price range there are surely the RED 2, Super Full HD and Pinkray discs ;-)



Antwort von WoWu:

The years of "conventional" cameras are numbered anyway, because the transition to CMOS makes very much more than the RED can ever be ... if only I guess .... s.The HDR options however, see the (; current) RED pictures from already quite old.
To do this, then it must synonymous with no more lugging around the array and the DoF is created in each pixel .... depending on the choice and taste. The time of the dinosaurs is almost over already .... and RED (; in the current version) will be one of them. Good thing she's not so expensive and with a few contributions synonymous then quickly written off ....



Antwort von Andreas_Kiel:

"steffunk" wrote:

This Forum aggressive mood here

just because not everyone immediately falls on his knees when he hears RED, read, smell or taste? Some statements in the appropriate forum to sound even after almost religious ecstasy:
Quote:
Im so excited! , Any negativity towards this product is simply that people (; movie guys) are scared

(; If one was negative to say about the RED, then) only out of fear
Quote:
Lots of people with big dreams who have shot a couple of corporate videos see this camera s.their break into the big time and seem to think that the film guys will fall by the wayside because they will refuse to adopt the tech

Quote:
RED RED ART SCIENCE

Quote:
Spend ® 26k in twenty seconds ......... and it feels GREAT!

Quote:
But money talks s.long s.theres a market ... I know preaching to the converted

BG, Andreas



Antwort von PowerMac:

"Andreas_Kiel" wrote:
"Anonymous" wrote:

The lenses: When it comes to be rented, no problem. Otherwise, we need the RED Zoomlens 18-50. Although this is slightly out of focus in the Comparison of the top lenses, but on PAL sees SOWISO no pig.

You would need a RED? Well, they can be relatively easy to think a little bit ...


Yes. Definitely. A question of aesthetics. The question is, will be the typical EB-charm, a charm or a film industry movies charm. Instead of charm, one might say look or aesthetics, or synonymous synonymous feeling. For the latter, you yourself need for a PAL release, at least 35mm, or 16mm. To the Picture quality impression of getting near, not even the current range of HD cameras (; Varicam, HDW-900 ... off). And of course, has little to do with sharpness. Compare a 35-mm film (; industry) and one Digibeta (film, industry), respectively, both on a PAL DVD. Both can be quiet shone. Sharp are both the same. Even if not the best at 35mm prime lens would have been used, so the best sharpness would have been achieved. But the picture itself is a completely different! Therefore we need for this picture impression even 35mm or 4k. In my opinion.



Antwort von DWUA:

@ Powermac
About your last post 16 mm is especially pleased FWU

:)



Antwort von PowerMac:

I do not understand ...



Antwort von DWUA:

FWU is the doyen of the "charm 16mm.



Antwort von PowerMac:

The Institute for Film and Picture in science and teaching? So I have nothing s.Hut. These charms have I thought:) I enjoyed it in school and have emancipated myself from it. Next month I again produce some educational films, but with HD-charm.



Antwort von HeikoS:

"PowerMac" wrote:
Compare a 35-mm film (; industry) and one Digibeta (film, industry), respectively, both on a PAL DVD. Both can be quiet shone. Sharp are both the same. Even if not the best at 35mm prime lens would have been used, so the best sharpness would have been achieved. But the picture itself is a completely different!



Bold assertion. I would say the opposite: The effort (; s.Set and in the post office) will decide on the grace and impact.
Your comments remind me a little s.The allegations that the 35mm film grain is crucial to the film look on DVDs ....



Antwort von PowerMac:

More than 20% I give the technical quality of the camera is not at all! ;)
Of course, influenced the content and it is yielding the work s.Set the Picture. A look is primarily through a certain mood lighting, which is determined by the content, influenced. Next in the costumes, the colors, mask, hair styles, colors. And of course, foremost through the equipment! And equipment is obtained directly from the content, the presentation of Directing.
It is foolish to reduce the picture impression on technical properties. How a picture looks like, how it works depends, of course, from the next of staging, the resolution of the action in scenes. If someone turns to the camera, working with the camera, or what position the camera takes the picture affects the impression and not anything technical. Just rides or general Kadrage. Professional appearance is (to a maximum of 20% up to the technical quality of the camera and 80% of the affair Directing and the artistic departments, camera work, lighting accents, furnishings, costumes, masks, location ...), including the actor.



Antwort von DWUA:

@ Powermac

Oh, what? These secrets will betray you publicly here ... ;)

Sometimes it means just 90% perspiration 10% inspiration.
Conversely, we like it synonymous but much better!
Inequitably distributed to all participants.
The "RED" and all the others is still completely not care.

It's not bad when you next to the "sweep leg" still
a "pillar" has, therefore, probably your Instructional? Several of the
next month? Man, you're well on it! It still believes no pig!

OT
How's actually "Beyond ..." ?
Is there a link?



Antwort von PowerMac:

Well, only that:
http://neuzeit.tv/neues.htm



Antwort von Valentino:

I am now working again a few hours with the RED and I can somehow find anything special s.dieser Camera. I am currently synonymous not come out, why in the world, no Camera HD-SDI signal into 2K let alone in HD can output 1080p and therefore not a function HDCAM SR recorder or a HDD recorder of DVC as a recording medium. No. somehow everything goes just REDCODE about this and I am therefore bound s.ein format and must convert it very cumbersome and time consuming s.einem PC. This should now be the great progress, but the will of so many redus always appropriate as the argument, not really. When I rotate a movie in 2K or HD I want to import the material simply as an individual or via SDI into a Nitris and immediately cut off and give me a 8 Core Calculator Convert to probably have to turn off for days.
(With any other camera, D20/D21, 2K Model of Silicon Count., Viper, F23/F25) Genesis I can connect via HD-SDI or 2K synonymous s.jedes recording device. Quite apart from that is the data rate of Redcode not really high, it is to 2GB per minute, with the 4k is really not true for a lot. DVCPRO HD has 1GB per minute, and that's not even real full-HD. Good to DVCPro codec is not synonymous as the newest, the Redcode but not synonymous, and is still far from s.The efficiency of MPEG4 codec as HDCAM SR. My guess, it will strike at the moment just how badly no one looks the picture of the RED 4K, simply because we still have no reference.
I have noticed is synonymous, which is used in almost every forum, the very large sales as the main argument, which does not indicate at all times even with the quality and handling of the camera, but only shows how well the marketing of RED is.



Antwort von sas_hh:

So one of the simplest and Grundlegendsen problems for the professional use of the viewfinder is real.
With the LCD, it is impossible to draw the focus to properly assess or so.
Apparently it is supposed to come ne kind of sport hunters, but nothing replaces the direct Bildabgriff through a prism, before anything comes into the camera.
Maybe build the miracle ja ne



Antwort von Pianist:

"Valentino" wrote:
My guess, it will strike at the moment just how badly no one looks the picture of the RED 4K, simply because we still have no reference.
I have noticed is synonymous, which is used in almost every forum, the very large sales as the main argument, which does not indicate at all times even with the quality and handling of the camera, but only shows how well the marketing of RED is.

All I can supplement the current observation: In the past week there were s.der Academy of Film and Television (; HFF) Konrad Wolf in Potsdam-Babelsberg, an event where it was inter alia the different workflows for digital film production industry. There should be shown how the material can be combined from different cameras in post production and exposed on 35mm.

This event became more or less "by accident" at a camera comparison that s.sich was not intended. In the Studio 2 in the basement of the HFF a scene was constructed and three actors played again and again the same short scene. It was shot in succession, inter alia, with the Arri D20, the SonyF23, the SI 2K, Red One, the SonyPMW EX-1 and the Ikegami Editcam HD. These Lenses have fixed focal length used. If I remember correctly, were recorded the signals of the ARRI, the Sonyand the SI on a Megacine Field Recorders, Red gave their Redcode and the Ikegami their DNxHD. Several times were in the studio the way, comments like "Can someone turn off once the Red One, I understand not hear anything," which alludes to the very loud fan noise should be.

Subsequently, all images are cut and exposed on 35mm. Unfortunately, I was due to deadlines for the demonstration at the HFF cinema not be there, but there were 400 other people there, some of which (;), according to witnesses left the room with very long faces. What expletives now fell in detail, was not handed down to me exactly, but the climate was irritated as "extremely" section. What had happened?

In the (; course, purely subjective) impression of most viewers, the Ikegami Editcam HD cut s.besten. The Arri D20 only came in 2nd place, followed Of the SonyF23. Then came a great distance with the Silicon Images 2K, and the rear were the Red One and the PMW-EX 1st As I said: There was only about the overall picture impression, without asking for any details such as contrast or noise too. Finally, it was not prepared camera-comparison test. And there were mostly people visiting who are completely above suspicion, Ikegami for his fans.

Now we need to save the honor of the other Manufacturers say it can not be s.sich that the results so far differ. My guess: When Rotate was placed too little emphasis on optimal setting of technical parameters. All cameras should take more or less with their "preset settings", and since it is obvious that one can get from one or more other camera, just as one would do it synonymous with a real twist.

This result will not allow the Manufacturer sure to sit up. We can only wonder when and where to get the rematch. A slight grin I could not help but ...

Matthias



Antwort von PowerMac:

Krass ... I hope for more contributions to the HFF s.der event.



Antwort von thedirector:

".... We can only wonder when and where to get the rematch. A slight grin I could not help but ... "

There's more than parallels, none of them in the gravel.
Go to-mach doch mal.
Encouragement to write.



Antwort von WoWu:

Here, incidentally, are the downloads for the event ....

http://www.hd-channel.com/



Antwort von Pianist:

"WoWu" wrote:
Here, incidentally, are the downloads for the event ....

Then do not lie "for the downloads, but since only the Ikegami-recording is because the owner of this page of the Berliner Ikegami dealer, who, however, is not only dealers, but with Ikegami cameras for decades, even working. Whether the shots of the other cameras download somewhere, I do not know. Probably no one will have an interest therein. I'm not even sure whether it is good to assess sowas via download from the internet, because at home, but every time the conditions are different.

Me, at least it is expressly to give the other cameras even have a fair chance, because not excluded by the conditions in this test is that mistakes were made during Rotate the camera and thus could not get the best performance. Synonymous, I would prefer a different setting, without mirrored monitors in the Picture and without the blue screen, anyway could hardly function.

From my point of view, would run as follows: Sony, Arri, Silicon Images, Red and Ikegami (; s.sich then are synonymous Thomson Viper, Panavision Genesis, Dalsa Origin and More) each represent a camera available, and ask an operator to which is perfectly familiar with his camera. Furthermore, we provide an upper-operator who is responsible, jointly with the operator, so go through the menus of the camera, what settings need to be placed there so that the cameras make the best performance. It must indeed be not necessarily the zero positions. In one camera may be switched off a particular function, and at another camera, it is perhaps necessary, zuzuschalten a specific function. Vote for this process, I set times for a whole day.

Then turn should be rotated in the studio recordings, and that in a neutral everyday scene without disturbing foreign body such as monitors or blue walls. Of course, been fully illuminated. It should be selected a specific lens, which then migrate for Camera to Camera. Before the recording is done through the lens a correct white balance. Sharpness is not measured with a tape measure, but will be evaluated with a video camera, of course, on a reasonably large monitor. The exposure should be reviewed both on the monitor by eye as synonymous measurements.

Zusammenschneiden Then everything that illuminate and show in the movies. Knowledgeable viewers will then give their subjective opinion, I'd pretend to no fixed schedule or even answer a questionnaire.

I am sure that the cameras are closer to each other than in the past week. Of course I would be happy but if the Ikegami Editcam HD is ahead again. But until then I think that really, because it is strange that the camera precisely which of all high-resolution cameras s.wenigsten as digital cinema camera is designed specifically developed for this purpose (; and sometimes considerably more expensive) cameras in the shade can stand.

Matthias



Antwort von WoWu:

@ Matthias

absolutely da'core. You had a synonymous already expressed that it is the result of your opinion, is a chance result of what it is surely synonymous. Only it is such a concerted events as synonymous of you and of me-favored, not give, because some are more interested s.Legendenbildung Manufacturers are offering as s.objektiven both Tests and fewer, but more cryptic descriptions of their cameras. Companies such as Ikegami, which are synonymous to make transparent the correct information from becoming the exception, and such "chance meetings" are probably synonymous to continue to contribute to the information.
Also the "test" of Adam J. Wilt was more, such a "random test" of the sum can be a relatively slow form. Checks will be still in question points that will, over time revealed a Picture synonymous.
The Comparison of Ikegami's only so far impressive, as this camera does not even like the F23 or D20 in the really expensive but entirely priced in the league belongs to the RED. Shakes and even such a "random comparison" of course myth s.der education, which indeed has really nothing to do with information and of course this was only possible that there has been no comparison of image quality but only "screenings" for exquisite parties and one well-designed marketing campaign.
Well, the RED has an advantage but now .... it will always be cheaper with the dollar so when the next will go to for all who are "sharp" on it have now for the price of the EX1. If it still appears that the images do not already have better, then perhaps synonymous with law. In this respect are those where already synonymous subjective comparison meaningful. But I'll give you quite right, a total test under concerted and objective conditions would be ideal but I fear it only a few companies have a real interest.
But thanks again for the article on the HFF event.



Antwort von Pianist:

"WoWu" wrote:
The Comparison of Ikegami's only so far impressive, as this camera does not even like the F23 or D20 in the really expensive but entirely priced in the league belongs to the RED.

Najaaaa - I would rather say: In between. The Red One but will cost a lot less than the Editcam HD, less than half. And the two former significantly more than twice the Ikegami.

Matthias



Antwort von WoWu:

Even then I would agree with you, almost, with my lie about the price of Ik at around 50 T ¬ And if everything round about the RED, which one is yes, finally (; needs as opposed to the Ik) charged with, be synonymous rapidly at 45-50 T ®.
The camera itself is already almost a bargain ... but they just played simply no usable signal. Where other cameras, at least heraustun still a recordable signals from the HDSDI, I get REDCODE only heir, so everything needs to purchase it.
I have no way synonymous, perhaps using a suitable HD recorder. So even if I have enough equipment in my (, SR)-HD equipment and properly dispose would not have any problems dealing with such signals, as these parts in RED all unused in the corner, because I am dependent on the RED recording procedures. These are all things that I do not happen at Ik, and which will be reflected in price, of course.
Because that always sounds so tempting, the RED ® for 14,000 ... But that's just it does not. It's like with the printer: The printer itself is quite a gift, but the cartridges will cost ....



Antwort von Pianist:

"WoWu" wrote:
Even then I would agree with you, almost, with my lie about the price of Ik at around 50 T ¬ And if everything round about the RED, which one is yes, finally (; needs as opposed to the Ik) charged with, be synonymous rapidly at 45-50 T ®.

I have never made the effort to aggregate views of what is needed at the Red utmost to drehfertig to be, but if you've done that, and come to that conclusion, then both are actually about the same price. Lenses I leave with such considerations in any case always in the outside, because as you can invest any amount of money indeed.

However, I'm afraid to remain, such as the Red camera, which is explicitly intended as a camera for theatrical productions, compared with a camera, which basically just like any other electronic camera in front of her and is designed primarily as a " ordinary "EB-camera work and use, only very high resolution. That was synonymous exactly the reason why I opted for the Editcam HD, because I so "can turn right in real life" as quickly and safely as before. And in the process, I am even faster than before.

The Red One is just a totally different concept, as it is to digital movies, and as it prepares each scene in peace to occur and then rotates. Because while it may be synonymous to get over that, then the conversion of material takes an eternity, just as the film just waiting for the copy center to be. However, I fear that often the original sounds quieter scenes by the loud fan noise will be useless and need to be dubbed.

One can compare, then, as much as you want it to stay still apples and pears. Ultimately, every manager has to decide for themselves what camera he uses and how he deals with the respective strengths and weaknesses.

Matthias



Antwort von thedirector:

Since I am now really quite agree with you.
Only when I Adam J. Wilt Test carefully read and must recognize that as much of the originally promised to remain only 4k and 2k of the 2k ultimately still just 1280, then, I wonder how small the movies really must be in order to provide a similar effect with a real 4k resolution. Also, it is shocking to see in the comparison that really does not exist detailed resolution, which has yielded just the "soft" wavelet.
Somehow this reminds me s.The Hamilton Photography. But, beautiful as the pictures were synonymous, it is still simply a temporary phenomenon.
At the latest when the first of the experiment are cured of the late Gradings will be HD are expected to reverse from details in the Picture.
I sometimes wonder why anyway you want to use the "movie people" absolutely video ... there are plenty of very good cameras, and Kodak has only just a "small film revolution" brought to market. Why did they not do so next celluloid. To really get the same quality in the video field, they must already wait Ettlich years.



Antwort von WoWu:

... always Einloggerei ..



Antwort von PowerMac:

I am definitely not a red fan, I watch the device interesting for years. I still hope for a test that shows the alleged picture quality right. Moreover, one may well drehfertig for 25,000 euros, for a total of 30,000 euros with zoom optics. The U.S. dollar (; ® 1 ¬ = 1.60) that helps of course. 35mm and the relatively high-quality, but cheaper optics, which are made of mysterious Cooke in England, but are labeled as Red Hat. So far, the tests were all somehow not valid, and certainly not reliable. I wish for the comparison tests were used experienced owners of the cameras. One would have to allow time for setting up the scene and well informed to know about the attitudes of "his" camera. Then you should post at least native statues and the exact settings used on the Internet. And one 720p and one 1080p clip. Toll I find on this "HD channel" page, that offer a full music video download than 720p (, 140 MB). In three versions: S16, HDCAM and Varicam. Then you can really compare. Synonymous with one can assume have more experience with S16 than with a Varicam, which is now as times for the test.



Antwort von Pianist:

"Anonymous" wrote:
I sometimes wonder why anyway you want to use the "movie people" absolutely video ... there are plenty of very good cameras, and Kodak has only just a "small film revolution" brought to market. Why did they not do so next celluloid.

At this point I have to admit time that I am indeed a pure video-man, I've never worked with film, because that was never my site. But I know how much is the mechanical quality of film cameras, and which bring excellence modern film emulsions. So I'm pretty sure a lot of big productions still rotated for a long time on film to be.

I see the advantage of video technology in the field of scenic productions rather that the "entry barrier" is lower. Thus more people have the chance to implement their ideas without expensive film footage and without expensive processing laboratory. If you look at the costs will be for a big Hollywood production look, then since only a small part attributable to the footage. There is therefore scope for savings through the use of electronic technology rather low. But look at small-scale production with a limited budget that clearly different.

Therefore, one can appreciate even if new technologies and more people gain access to a medium and tap into new forms of employment. The traditional film technology is not immediately contain something completely unnecessary, especially since in most areas is still the projector 35mm projector and is just not 4K digital projectors. Apart from that, one should always remember that 4K is a lot more fit than 35mm. The chemical resolution of a 35mm film is much closer s.2K.

Matthias



Antwort von WoWu:

It is certainly possible to make good shots with the camera at ... This is with every camera possible.
The question is merely how the prospective customer receives reliable orientation before he bought it and such, of Matthias proposed test, of which, I believe that some companies shy away from him would be a start.
The items of good settings for a particular brand would be just another marketing tool for this company, but not very open (; because subjective orientation) for a possible purchase.
So buy with the motto, first and then hopefully find good settings. That's can not be real.



Antwort von WoWu:

@ Matthias

Since the posts have overlapped .... I give you right to where a danger of course is that it very quickly, there is an oversupply and plunging prices, the minutes avalanche.
Film Art Festival for ... great, but much is known as "cinema" is declared, but then ends up in the field of television ... with the corresponding inflation of the material. Not quite critical in this respect. And unless you are sitting on an unrivaled genre, you will certainly can understand that.



Antwort von artbeatsart:

"Valentino" wrote:
"steffunk" wrote:

Focus Puller comes with our budget SOWISO no question that makes equal with the cameraman. This is currently a bit difficult because the display is not really convincing. Let us hope that soon the viewfinder comes out, which will make all previous viewfinder in the shade.

You are so poor off you can not even afford a Fucuspuller, where there are the good quite rare. Aber mal ne quite silly question, why not be a simple enough when you HPX3000 or F900 for your application, even if the cameraman himself the focus needs to go.

And to your company, and probably your employer that you want lußtig yes verrkaufen the customer to Red, but honestly once the sentence "For the customer unbeatable picture quality does not arise, despite the additional costs" so says it explains everything from why and synonymous Then of course, no more money for the Fokuspuller exists.
Ah, yet another question ne ye then match the RED synonymous s.Ultra the appropriate sentence, MasterCard or Coke S4 Primes?



Dear Valentino, such a baloney I have not read a long time. Your contribution served to me otherwise love slashcam not just for the honor. I am co-owner of element p, and can tell you that I need in most cases no Focuspuller because I can draw my sharpness after 20 years of operating hours behind the camera himself s.besten actually has to do with experience, and experience speaks not just from your lines. RED is not for dummies and the Valentinos this world, but a fairly serious alternative to 35mm. Everything else like your whole HD, etc. Rubbish, kannste you somewhere slide out, HD is dead, at least as Aufnahemeverfahren in the classical sense. And if you ever see a few decent pictures you want to [offensive] deleted by the mod, if you please: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10456. Real sharp, the pictures, I think, in any case. I would love to see some examples of you so we can start our Shootout. Then I'll tell you synonymous, as my lens arsenal looks like ;-)

Cheers

Daniel



Antwort von WoWu:

@ Daniel

How do you comment Wilt in this context, the comparison of the Red/F23/Ex1 of Adam J.?

I quite understand the comment:
Quote:
HD is dead
not .. You are referring to the cinematography? Would you do this a little closer?



Antwort von artbeatsart:

404ERR



Antwort von Pianist:

"artbeatsart" wrote:
... these cameras could easily tell no tales ...

Cameras are to tell stories? I just went to art camp: My Camera is quiet as a mouse. That tells nothing. Is synonymous to me as it should be. For it is not my camera tells the story, but I tell the story. Synonymous, but now I know why the Red One roars so loud: The apparently told all the time for any stories in a language that I do not understand.

Matthias



Antwort von artbeatsart:

"Pianist" wrote:

Cameras are to tell stories? I just went to art camp: My Camera is quiet as a mouse. That tells nothing. Is synonymous to me as it should be. For it is not my camera tells the story, but I tell the story. Synonymous, but now I know why the Red One roars so loud: The apparently told all the time for any stories in a language that I do not understand.

Matthias
Hehehe, goood ;-) Then we still remain in what we have mastered and are used to, so I am quite synonymous.

Daniel



Antwort von WoWu:

Daniel, thank you for the execution. I'm working s.einer opposition within the topic cinematography and try to determine the positions.
I can not understand some of the arguments so easily, especially driving the "not open approach" that REd there (and I) can target the "proprietary" deficiencies in Sonygut understand, but I see RED when a far greater risk ... but that's not really thrash out here.
Certainly, the relatively low purchase price will open a new market potential, what is the RED synonymous people should not blame .. probably they'll move something synonymous with it.
But I do not want to enter so deeply into the discussion ... There are a lot of "For" and "cons" and my approach is not so much in the evaluation, as many more in the comparison figures. Since the "target" plays of the product, of course a very important role (; TV. /. Movies). Synonymous, I think that it makes no sense to demonize either one or the other ". We will probably have to live for a long time with two forms of media. It now has two really do not like just one of a co-existence is essential. I think only RED is likely to polarize, because the prices were so similar, and quite suddenly, things overlap. The price ranges of the D20 or F35 or F23 is not discussed that. Interestingly, says the ARRI D20 synonymous not know that it should replace filter. It is an ad on the port foil, which will only cover the "fast" market, ie the market where the images must be quickly available. (); News. And, it has to be seen as synonymous, of course, .... However, there are other reasons as synonymous.
In any case, many thanks for execution.
Greeting to Switzerland



Antwort von thedirector:

Hi Wolfgang
Yes, with a side of live formats and technologies you have certainly right. I am now 50 and have followed up close just about all the technological changes in film / computer technology. Basically, I do not judge demonize me just excites ignorance. Was briefly on your web page, what you're saying is, hand and foot, testimony of long experience, speaking from the heart. And I maintain that straight line is for documentation in RED are suitable because their pictures, people, landscapes with a softer, much more pleasing to the eye can paint technology, as it brings the HD technology ready. I have recorded HD with the mythologies of Egypt, flew with two HDs Nazca or filmed over several days in Sudan, etc. All well and fairly, however: a new calls RED diligence, a new slowness, the picture does not deliver fast RED. After all these years, I am quite fast to me playfully respect was forced on technology and object, as I know them of the 35mm technology. Wish you good luck with your projects and perhaps as soon times in Colombia ;-)

Best regards

Daniel



Antwort von artbeatsart:

Hi Wolfgang
Yes, with a side of live formats and technologies you have certainly right. I am now 50 and have followed up close just about all the technological changes in film / computer technology. Basically, I do not judge demonize me just excites ignorance. Was briefly on your web page, what you're saying is, hand and foot, testimony of long experience, speaking from the heart. And I maintain that straight line is for documentation in RED are suitable because their pictures, people, landscapes with a softer, much more pleasing to the eye can paint technology, as it brings the HD technology ready. I have recorded HD with the mythologies of Egypt, flew with two HDs Nazca or filmed over several days in Sudan, etc. All well and fairly, however: a new calls RED diligence, a new slowness, the picture does not deliver fast RED. After all these years, I am quite fast to me playfully respect was forced on technology and object, as I know them of the 35mm technology. Wish you good luck with your projects and perhaps as soon times in Colombia ;-)

Best regards

Daniel



Antwort von thedirector:

Hi Daniel,

For me anyway, a paradigm shift is currently taking place and because the issue plays into film, but synonymous with the theme of consumer technology.
Was it for decades the television, which introduced for the consumer has notified the technical Fortschitt and and the film is always an extraordinary event, it turns after such a long period of apparent wind and the television is the "hunted" and driven of high quality in the consumer area and film, which makes use of electronic media suddenly, nor to the price for a very broad public. A few years ago was still the equipment price is a huge entry barrier, it will be very fast, others perhaps finally qualitative hurdles. (; Hope, however, considers that, given the current quality of television tends to be dull).
In any case, very soon television more synonymous with his old reputation for poor quality and not really be fair.
In any case, currently playing off exciting events.
My enthusiasm for RED keeps still within limits .... procedures and performance and I do not defendant objects to ... rather, that I really s.REDCode with skin and hair, and hang the associated software, and it will take probably not so very long time (until other Manufacturer, will present, perhaps even the photographic industry) and similar products then a founder, plenty of money has to be guided rather differently, as a "load" as Sonyand certainly no intention to spend more to build a global service and maintain a software generation after another.
But those are just my own personal fears and not directed against those systems which do not, in the right hand securely synonymous fascinating images in a timely manner.
Good, I just find only that there is BOTH and the consumer has the choice of what he wants to use the product appropriately.
Bad, I think that will probably crash through the coming oversupply the-minute prices.
Light and shadow really. It would be nice if the proponents and opponents to deal objectively synonymous here in the forums with it. Good, I think s.aktuellen example, that those who are just trying to do this without doing hinder the anonymity of the "score". That shows me that the "fighters" are synonymous and deliver not only behind the bubbles.
I think we will change so many words on the subject. And only the confrontation brings progress. As the Austrian philosopher Karl Popper once said: Everyone has only a presumption of knowledge. It will only be established with the purpose of the risk involved, to be refuted.
This refutation is to learn and progress is synonymous for me.
Sun, and now I hope that does not come back balloons.
Daniel ... And the others who participate in open here thank you for the contributions.
Good Easter greetings to Europe ...
..... Today in the Hammock at 25 ° and sunny ... (; Häme)



Antwort von WoWu:

... I forget the darn Login synonymous always ...



Antwort von Pianist:

I have just phoned with the cameraman, editor and we have come to the conclusion that we simply time to wait and see if somewhere again someone comes up with the idea to venture a little more correct to Comparison. A Comparison to organize their own, that would be for many reasons, regarded with more skepticism. For it is now time (; apart from the time-and cost nearly) impossible to throw different artistic hand tools such as apples and pears in a pot. Since just can s.end no result as in the books of the Foundation out Warentest, because the visual elements of cameras now times are very subjective. One would therefore represent an insoluble problem, and this should not harm himself.

Ultimately we can only give the Recommendation: Everyone must make his own tests and then decide on the appropriate device. In principle, yes even the "accident" in Babelsberg test showed that the final result depends on the price of the camera. Thus one can understand it as synonymous explicit encouragement to all who so thoroughly as possible to deal with the particular camera and make the whole production chain so that each comes out as s.end the desired result.

Matthias



Antwort von Valentino:

@ artbeatsart

As someone feels attacked, but very, very quiet, the views are breath again. Hmm so much of the time was synonymous RED convinced, but since I had the camera a little more extensively tested, and the RED camera as revoltinär not really think. There have been years ago as the D20 and the front of Drake and are better at such worlds. Here is me that is not required of Manufacturer, which I can only record in his own RED codec but each recording device that has an HD-SDI input can use.
But if you (with the RED, its hammer 2k resolutions, gigantic 280Mbit data rate; HDCAM SR 440 and 880Mbit ;-) And the eternal render times're happy, I do not want you to convert synonymous.

@ Pianist

For example, a camera comparison (; D20, RED, F23, Si2K, Phantom65 planning, etc.) as far as I known a few students of the University Dortmund, or even another university. I can just ask whether the public interest have all synonymous with the cameraman. You can even ask once synonymous with a cameraman.

Because of Film and 2K resolution. A 35mm negative film is no great problem 6k at eg 160 Asa material, what material it is 500 at between 3 and 4k. But seeing through the whole copying and increasingly poor copies of the film labs or the projectionist the projector is not usually it is usually 2k or less.
But if one views another has the same negative film scans in 4k and exposed on slide film, the film is a Auflöung of about 4k.
That such a Qualli but usually only for patterns or Hollywood blockbusters can be found to 2k is usually the highest resolution.



Antwort von Pianist:

"Valentino" wrote:
For example, a camera comparison (; D20, RED, F23, Si2K, Phantom65 planning, etc.) as far as I known a few students of the University Dortmund, or even another university.

But who will ask the Ikegami Editcam HD not forget ... :-)

Matthias



Antwort von thedirector:

"artbeatsart" wrote:
And if you ever see a few decent pictures you want [beleidigung the mod deleted]

yet one more reason to fall asleep to let his account here.



Antwort von thedirector:

Good sleep!



Antwort von PowerMac:

Was not that bad.




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