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Schärfeverlust, getrennte DV-Bänder etc.? Nochmal ein paar Fragen zu 25p...

Sharpness loss, separate DV tapes, etc.? Again a few questions about 25p ...

Frage von Addie:
September 2007


I have come to play a few test shots in 25p mode made and would like to hear your experiences.

First a few background: I was recently with some daylight shots of the HV20 at Saturn and got this via HDMI s.neuen Panasonic FullHD with 58 inch display can. I think I wanted to not believe what I saw ... ;-). I was really totally slay of the incredible picture quality, the sharpness, the Datails - for me as a non-pro's at any rate an experience!
They were all shooting 50i.

Now I wanted to get but the 25p mode, try it in conjunction with the movie mode. I was at the cloudy weather in a wooded park, in part, it was a bit bleak. On the camera then pans were so well known as "shaky" or "stroboskopartiger" from, you know what I mean. This is my first noticed: on the external display of the effect was more notice from the small internal display (one knows why?).
But much more importantly, the camera seemed in 25p mode, so that more problems have to focus. Can that be? I had the impression that they often times had to seek only minimal, but so far I knew that did not. Do you have similar experiences?

And anyway sharpness: the moving images look panned anyway "blurred", but this is a perfectly synonymous intended effect. But the pans are somehow softer than 50i. BUT: I have the impression that almost synonymous entirely still images (it had a tripod) at 25p less sharp than in 50i. Now I have at home, unfortunately, no 58 inch FullHD order under the same conditions to test (50i s.PC will always pans streaky because of the half, and therefore difficult to compare). Only one scene in a little brighter light looked really s.PC screen from razor sharp. How did your experience there?
Oh yes, and I have the images captured with Edius 4 (Preset: HDV 1080/50i HDV 1080/25p instead). The camera then pans to see viiiiiieeeel less than stroboskopartig when recording in the display itself!

And then I want to finally know: it means yes, that one to one and the same tape is not 50i and 25p recordings should mix. But why exactly? The tape may be but no preference to what previously has been, or? Previous recordings do not affect subsequent shots, or I see this wrong? As long as I do not have mixed and recorded in the same project in Edius recordings, but there should be no problems.

So, that was a lot of wood.

Thank you for the trouble in advance.

Antwort von jimi:

I am interested in the synonymous times. None has the answer?

Antwort von PowerMac:

You raise sharpness to the queen of video aesthetics? 25p is intentionally soft and blurred.

Antwort von clicki:

and how is the mix of the with 25p and 50i footage in a band? sounds implausible for me also, that it comes as u complications.

Antwort von Addie:

"PowerMac" wrote:
You raise sharpness to the queen of video aesthetics?

No, no. Or. I know it is not so accurate as I am still undecided. So krass like you're saying but it is certainly not.
As I said, the Picture (and the sharpness is just a part of it was) s.FullHDTV I was just super! The 25p recording s.PC can compare so badly ... .

25p is intentionally soft and blurred.

You see, and exactly what I wanted to know. Was not sure whether it is because a malfunction, or simply a bad "performance" of the Camera is. Ie whether other 25p cameras in the "better" to make. That seems not to be the case (at least keien malfunction) and reassured me that yes sometimes!

25p seems to me therefore not necessarily an advantage over 50i, but rather a matter of taste of the filmmaker to be. Advantage is holding, I can choose.
25i is but synonymous with it? Do I need to test synonymous times ...

Antwort von PowerMac:

The 25p is quite a different thought. This comes of professional cameras and was first with the DVX in the lower classes was introduced. Because it just makes the simulation of film. If you have some costly turn a music video, passt das But then 25p and Amteurkameras? 25p is the movie closer look and act more like movies. This fits naturally is not the film style of an amateur or his camera work. Film Look for staged elaborate shoot, just for movies. And not for the "usual" one Amteurfilmers, perhaps his children or in the park filming. Why should the movies look as synonymous?

Antwort von Addie:

"PowerMac" wrote:
And not for the "usual" one Amteurfilmers, perhaps his children or in the park filming. Why should the movies look as synonymous?

True, why should such a fool as I use synonymous 25p? ;-)))

No, seriously, you probably right. But the recordings that I've made - especially the camera pans (passing current Kids) - saw the look really good.

As synonymous always, thanks for your instructions!

Antwort von clicki:

Why should a amateur films not 'film look' do? And 'glossy' film on video is synonymous a result of shrinking budgets finally! Especially if it ends on small cameras!

Antwort von PowerMac:

Because "film look" for the sake of filmgestalterischer is not simply an element can be, and what you add a movie as a product better.

Antwort von clicki:

"PowerMac" wrote:
Because "film look" for the sake of filmgestalterischer is not simply an element can be, and what you add a movie as a product better.

Of course, 'film look' is not for 'a better film. This attempt is so synonymous user as the questioners, to learn about what these settings mean, I suppose ...

Antwort von PowerMac:

I have answered: "(...) Why should a amateur films not 'film look' do? (...)"

Not less, not more.

Antwort von Addie:

This attempt is so synonymous user as the questioners, to learn about what these settings mean, I suppose ...

Just thought I's.

Because "film look" for the sake of filmgestalterischer is not simply an element can be, and what you add a movie as a product better

Surely not so easy. But yes maybe could do better. That is by the mere switching of 25p "auto simply better", I have not synonymous previously thought. My opinion is that this is already a matter of taste and is therefore synonymous in 25p amateur and even such simple things such as private family photographs certainly can be justified. It said such a car but not better.

Regardless, it can probably totdiskutieren!

Maybe you can still send me explain why you 25p and 50i are not on a tape should save?

Antwort von PowerMac:

Nope, why?

Antwort von Addie:

"PowerMac" wrote:
Nope, why?

Where in the manual that came with the HV20 and in some forums, I have already read it synonymous. But I can not make it rhyme.

Antwort von PowerMac:

In the ideal case, pressing the Stop button in the TC register anyway. Therefore, almost any editing program to make two clips of it, which attributes the 25i and 25p may be present.

Antwort von Ratman:


That is almost cheese, as you look over the film is told .. Panasonic read at times to understand why they are for the development of a progressive scanning decided. All this crap, because you will be told is not worth the bits that were used to write ... Power Mac just wants his counter so hochpusten ....

Antwort von PowerMac:

Another guest, who totally understands me!

Antwort von Addie:

Did some testing today:

I was initially on a new tape-recordings made 25p. These ran at known camera pans a little jerky, but just as it is desired (on the plasma TV viewing)
Then I got behind 50i-made recordings. This ran fluently, but I came SOMETHING qualitatively worse than usual before s.Plasma Will, however, I do not define it.

BUT: Then I switched again to 25p - THIS recordings could then totally forgot! Looked like 25i! The jerky pans and then over the entire recording, you can actually do not watch.

I would therefore confirm s.dieser body. 50i and 25p - or so it seems the other way - you really should not make a tape! Technically, I understand that although not entirely, but it is so. Whether the synonymous so if you have something on the empty space between the tape recordings, I can not now. But I guess times are not.

Antwort von king_lijaone:

right. to go. s.band empty space, then it is denk ich mal kein problem.
following comparison: you are going on a road in the right traffic. suddenly and without notice, the whole to a road link with traffic. now it does nothing more.

Antwort von PowerMac:

To understand the proper nomenclature:

"25i" is the old expression "50i".

Antwort von king_lijaone:

... corresponds to the wrong 1080i/25 old 1080i/50
The "i" is always in front of the dash.

Antwort von Axel:

From questions of Looks aside, there is an advantage of "p" recordings: They can be totally harmless small scale. Is the goal a DVD, you can save each detour: From HDV to Mpeg2 DVD Mpeg2. So this is: HDV cams are better DV cams.
Even in the post is "p" material better. Finally synonymous Calculator half of us do not.

Antwort von stefanph:

"Anonymous" wrote:
right. to go. s.band empty space, then it is denk ich mal kein problem.

Aha, thanks for the tip. Hast Du's time tested and works?

Antwort von Addie:

"PowerMac" wrote:
"25i" is the old expression "50i".

I do not Kapi. If I were to make automatic aperture 25i and 50i recording or do you see it totally different from when panning, which is choppy at 25i, 50i no longer, certainly not over. 12i In other hand, it's still jerky and at 6i then s.stärksten - is synonymous logical.
Or what my you?

Antwort von PowerMac:

That, what you describe as 50i, 25i called today. 50 fields per second = 25i. There is always only the number of frames per second s.and then "i" or "p", as these are built.
Or so synonymous: 1080i/25.

Antwort von Addie:

okay, thanks. Can be confusing ...

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