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Zwei neue AVCHD-Cams von Canon: HF11 und HG21 HD mit  24 Mbit/s!

Two new AVCHD cams of Canon: HF11 and HG21 HD with 24 Mbit / s!



Newsmeldung von slashCAM:
Juli 2008

Two new AVCHD cams of Canon: HF11 and HG21 HD with 24 Mbit / s! Of heidi - 23 Jul 2008 13:13:00
Canon in Japan has two new AVCHD camcorder, which as long of users wanted to finally (and thus became the first consumer AVCHD camcorders), the maximum data rate of the AVCHD standard of 24 Mbit / s can fully exploit what the picture quality in some recording situation should improve. The HF11 comes with 32GB internal memory, which HGG21 with a 120GB hard drive. Both feature a 1/3.2 inch CMOS, 12X optical zoom, 2.7 inch Display, Optical Image Stabilization, a SD / SDHC card slot and take 1920 × 1080 AVCHD on. The HF11 is probably the Canon HF10 HG10 - next to each enlarged space is the most important innovation increased the maximum bitrate of both models. The two cams to in Japan in September for the price of converted 830 appear - whether, when and under what name they appear in Europe, is not yet known.

This is an auto-generated entry

Here is the link to the news with links and images on the pages Slashcam Magazine




Antwort von domain:

3.2 Inch CMOS?



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

Finally a great host Chip ...





Antwort von tom:

"domain" wrote:
3.2 Inch CMOS?


Schön wärs ;-)
1/3.2 duty must naturally hot - is now.

Thomas
Slashcam



Antwort von hart:

yet the rough kan bruder (XH XM4 or A2) is not far away



Antwort von wsanw:

Bruno Peter wrote:

[i] [i] At last, a great host Chip ... [[/ i]
The of the HF10 and HF100 is just so big, so no improvement in the chip size.

Gruß Willi



Antwort von dominator-video:

Is the design of the HF21 with HF10/100 identical. It looks so big from?



Antwort von mosillus:

"domain" wrote:
3.2 Inch CMOS?


bescherung would be nice:)



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

Quote:
24 Mbit / s


In my view, this AVCHD material only after transcoding in Intra-Frame Intermediate flüsssig currently editable. The file size will grow enormously, so are probably faster and very large hard disks needed.

Dürfete other hand, the high bit rate to a very good motion resolution that better than us so far of HD cameras in the consumer sector know!

If anyone has a clip-link to this material, which should link these times are here, would like to look at the editing capabilities of this material for free.



Antwort von Quadruplex:

"Bruno Peter" wrote:
In my view, this AVCHD material only after transcoding in Intra-Frame Intermediate flüsssig currently editable.

At least in theory it should be reversed - if the material is less data is reduced, the computational effort for unpacking / Edit fall. Whether it's for AVCHD (the format, in whose development the Manufacturer s.Nachbearbeitung never have thought), in practice, behaves exactly the same way, you will need to see. In any case, one or other editing software first of the videos with higher bitrates do not accept or only after an update.
"Bruno Peter" wrote:
The file size will grow enormously, so are probably faster and very large hard disks needed.

What do you mean? The original files or the transcoded? The original recordings are of course larger - 24 Mbps is still under HDV and DV. That should be no issue. And if you get this stuff in other, less or no data reduction codecs rectify, the files should be no greater than with the previous AVCHD models as a starting material.
"Bruno Peter" wrote:
Dürfete other hand, the high bit rate to a very good motion resolution that better than us so far of HD cameras in the consumer sector know!

Jau.
"Bruno Peter" wrote:
would like to look at the editing capabilities of this material for free.

That would interest me synonymous ...



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

So far we have AVCHD files with 17MBit / s. For transcoding into an Intra-Frame Intermediate (Canopus HQ AVI for example) the file grows by a factor of 10.

The new Canons are now AVCHD files with 24 Mbit / s, ie 1.41 times greater AVCHD files as before, then still the factor of 10 when transcoding it into a more easily editable Intra-Frame Intermediate.

This has consequences on the necessary processing power and disk throughput and the necessary hard-volume.

Oellers clear?



Antwort von dominator-video:

Intel and Apple Quick action now!



Antwort von Quadruplex:

"Bruno Peter" wrote:
ie, 1.41 times greater AVCHD files as before, then still the factor of 10 out of transcoding

Überleg times: You walk a data-reduced format in a less or non-data-reduced format. The amount of extracted data format increases not just because the data rate of the original video is higher.
Take the extreme: If you have data-reduced HD video in YUV umkomprimiertes walking, you have (for the same frame rate and resolution) s.Ende always a data stream of approximately 1 Gbps - no preference whether the original video a DivX movie, a DVCProHD or AVCHD is.
"Bruno Peter" wrote:
This has consequences on the required processor performance

This can (probably not noticeably) lower when the video data is less strongly reduced.
"Bruno Peter" wrote:
and the disk throughput

For the reproduction of the original videos it should be slightly higher - above the 24 Mbps but for the reasons no problem
"Bruno Peter" wrote:
and the necessary hard-volume.

See above - or in unpacked Intermediate codec converts the difference should be barely noticeable. But try making kluch ...
"Bruno Peter" wrote:
Oellers clear?

For me? Yes!



Antwort von WoWu:

@ Bruno

You like that with your reasoning is not so wrong.
It is always slightly depends on the tools now used.
To suggest a change from either the Main or High Profile in High Profile Level 3.0 of the 3.2 or possibly 4.0 to synonymous

That would mean that a larger number and a finer s.Makroblöcken macroblock structure accesses (4x4).
Because synonymous with your Intermediate Codec quite likely contains a data reduction and throughput 1.5 Gbit not be generated, it means so synonymous, a higher number, for example s.Vektoren. (To take just this example to draw out)
Clearly this leads to larger files and in addition, the IC synonymous out to higher computer requirements, because these additional vectors obviously synonymous from your IC must be processed.

The Quadruplex what you like as vorgerechnet is, of course, has an "analog thinking" and has long stretches with little in the world of data reduction to be done. (I give it to me to address in detail)

Is synonymous to suspect that increased I-frames are, as far as the memory access, primarily to the cash but significantly more calls.
That could be the only say when the company would decide times, synonymous Performance Profiles and the level indicated.
But the leap to 24 Mbit / s can be clearly impact on the requirements.
There is no way that the 24 Mbit / s mean that the video data is reduced less, quite the contrary - and completely different than before when MPEG2, can now be scaled additional tools.
Although at the transitions into other profiles synonymous simpler tools away again, but the whole picture resolution (spatially and temporally) is obviously increased.

Quote:
This can (probably not noticeably) lower when the video data is less strongly reduced.

So such "linear thinking" are not really with the times.

@ Dominator-video

Quote:
Intel and Apple Quick action now!


Schön wär's yes, if it would be enough, but before we are no better in the load balancing software, which uses little.
For Apple it will probably only happen in a year when the 'snow-leopard "OS comes out.



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

Perhaps we can soon a clip of the new cameras practically with our NLEs "touch", then yes, we see whether our current equipment can edit the sound or not.



Antwort von Quadruplex:

"Bruno Peter" wrote:
Perhaps we can soon a clip of the new cameras practically with our NLEs "touch", then yes, we see whether our current equipment can edit the sound or not.

There's not any part of Panasonic with a higher bitrate?



Antwort von WoWu:

@ Bruno

As I said, it slightly depends on which tools have been used. For example, CABAC was used, with the sounds of real-time limit (60p) and the 4-core approx. 15 Mbit / s, whereas the 4-core without CABAC the 25 Mbit / s or loosely packed. (synonymous to the 2-core), while with CABAC is the 2-core at 10 Mbit / s connection. Always a reasonable load operating system and exploitation by NLE application required.
However, load balancing, for example, with new software (update) certainly can change the current impressions were of course only a snapshot and synonymous only to a certain constellation of HW and SW.
But I totally agree with you as to ... it would be nice, we would of times what the cameras see.
But, as I said, this is changing with each update.



Antwort von dominator-video:

I'm waiting on the 151 as Panasonic or a 1st Test. Currently, video active again so be ahead. Other magazines and forums should be synonymous times to an exclusive pre-test effort.

That brings Click's :-)



Antwort von Quadruplex:

"WoWu" wrote:
The Quadruplex what you like as vorgerechnet is, of course, has an "analog thinking" and has long stretches with little in the world of data reduction to be done.

Strange - I have the fun times and ten seconds HDV directly with HuffYUV, which is a lossless intermediate codec, saved as an AVI. In parallel, I have the clip with diverse, high-data-reduced MPEG-4-variants (WMV, DivX, H.264) and even 'its Pinnacle M-JPEG variant evaporated - and then converted into HuffYUV. Somehow there is always something around 400 MB size raus ... Anything else would have surprised me synonymous.
"WoWu" wrote:
I give it to me to address in detail

Anyone foolish are as best he can. Only!



Antwort von wolfgang:

"Bruno Peter" wrote:

So far we have AVCHD files with 17MBit / s. For transcoding into an Intra-Frame Intermediate (Canopus HQ AVI for example) the file grows by a factor of 10.

The new Canons are now AVCHD files with 24 Mbit / s, ie 1.41 times greater AVCHD files as before, then still the factor of 10 when transcoding it into a more easily editable Intra-Frame Intermediate.


Nee, the first sentence is correct, the second no more. Just because the data rate of the raw material increases, increasing the size is not synonymous with the intermediates on.

The size of the intermediates depends primarily of the chosen quality (data rate) from the Intemediates, and dimensions of the picture - and not just from the starting material.

For material in the 1920s grade "fine", the Canopus HQ codec is always equal Intermediate files showed no preference whether the Ausgansmaterial with 17 mbps or 24 has been recorded.



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

Have here an AVCHD clip with 17MBit / s in the size of 480 MB.
How big is such an AVCHD clip with a data rate of 24MBit / s?



Antwort von wolfgang:

That is the wrong question, Bruno.

You right question would be: you have a 1920 clip with 17 mbps, and a 1920 clip with 24 mbps - both are of equal length. How big is the intermediate of the two clips?

Answer: The Intermediate clips are basically the same size! You do not have a factor of 1.41, and then the multiplier 10th But thou hast the factor 1.41, and then the multiplier 10 / 1.41 or about 7th



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

You mean so clips with 10sec duration are independent of the host data rate is always the same size?



Antwort von wolfgang:

The native AVCHD clips with each of 10 seconds are obviously vary in size - with the same dimensions 1920x1080 so the data rate increases.

But the clips from the two intermediates were produced, however, the same size, while otherwise setting s.den for the preparation of intermediates does not change.



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

So we need the larger file with 10 multiplies and then it's more than if we are the smaller file with 10 multiply ...

Nöö ... Oh, now I like but not really more ...

Servus!



Antwort von wolfgang:

Nee, the size of the 17 mbps AVCHD file with about 10 the size of the 24 mbps AVCHD file with approximately 7th



Antwort von Quadruplex:

"wolfgang" wrote:
Nee, the first sentence is correct, the second no more. Just because the data rate of the raw material increases, increasing the size is not synonymous with the intermediates on.

My question ...



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

The source material at the same recording time is greater, therefore, synonymous the Intermediate-File ...



Antwort von wolfgang:

Nee Bruno, you have apparently still not understood. That is just not the case.



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

Or you do not ...



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

Sorry double posting, please delete rigorously.
Sorry for the work with me ...



Antwort von wolfgang:

Yes times to pencil, Bruno. You're an old hand and should know that the size of the output of the material at the selected output data rate is dependent on - and not of any size of the starting material.

And Intermediates are defined with data rates shot - the best gross of any quality parameters are.

If you do not believe, but probiers a try.



Antwort von Bruno Peter:

I'm talking about but not Intermediate ...

You have previously agreed to me that the AVCHD files of the new cameras are bigger here ...



Antwort von wolfgang:

Of course talk is now past 14 postings only on this Intermediates - based on your text here:

"Bruno Peter" wrote:

The new Canons are now AVCHD files with 24 Mbit / s, ie 1.41 times greater AVCHD files as before, then still the factor of 10 when transcoding it into a more easily editable Intra-Frame Intermediate.


Tell wirs times like this: anyone who wants to can read and understand.



Antwort von Jan:

Hi,

The HG 21 has a Viewfinder (yes madness!) and the HG models are Hybrid camcorders s.sofort - so the film can be synonymous to SD memory card recording.

Semptember is the start for the 3 new models!

Here are the detailed data sheets of Canon with the new accessories and the content delivery:

Na mal schauen ....

VG
Jan



Antwort von WoWu:

@ Jan

Care because it is actually that of Canon synonymous interlaced passes?
The technical data will only produce: Progressive: yes: 25p
Scanty, sparse, rather than times to present meaningful data is displayed in large text runtergebetet that one: Snow and Other Clouds. Other. Other. as exposure may recruit ... na klasse.
And does the "night mode, with its 0,2 lx" pixel binning "?
Do you closer?



Antwort von Bernd E.:

"WoWu" wrote:
... Because the care is actually that of Canon synonymous interlaced passes? The technical data will only produce: Progressive: yes: 25p ...

Will probably be as synonymous with the other Canons with almost identical technical data (eg HF10): The recording is normally in 1080i, but is also "progressive" is possible.

Gruß Bernd E.



Antwort von WoWu:

Just a shame that such basic information is no longer the interval part of the technical descriptions.
There are more and more information left off. Also, the question arises why AVC is still on interlaced throughout the picture are used. Against the background of the AVC at the macro-block size is limited to pretty much do not need more for it .... probably an old "format hat" for nostalgics. ( "We have always done ...")



Antwort von Jan:

The previous data of the Canon cameras are very mau, synonymous for our Dealers. We hope to times that we as Canon in the usual manner still really good shed.

VG
Jan



Antwort von Jan:

To finally get the cameras, so synonymous has Slashcam the test presents.

I find the new top menu, sort of clear and not boring design - thumb up for the design.

Peaking for manual sharpening places I could not find a magnification of the image sharpness while dragging.

Yes, finally you can in the camera cut long did it take for Canon.

Absolutely brilliant and not possible - with a consumer camera is the LCD and Viewfinder (HG 21) together - this may even SonyVX the 2100 who wish to access, for example, had the professional PD 170 & FX 7 buy .

Features of it but as usual, the presentation of the display data such as in manual shutter (long scale) is nice, just like a hard drive diagnostic or good battery remaining display.

No global sensation when the data rate times removed, but a wise improved Camera.

VG
Jan




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