Frage von werner75:
Hello,
'm Videocam beginner and found it to be synonymous with full-Videocam offered abtastung but s.meisten interlaced.
The principle is quite clear to me but not their advantages and disadvantages.
1. Are there quality differences in the results? and
2. What, then, when Progressive-cams on the MiniDV tape on it, Vollbilder/25Hz or Halbbilder/50Hz in AVI?
A suitable answer, I have unfortunately not found in the forum.
MfG
Werner75
Antwort von PowerMac:
(...) The principle is quite clear to me but not their advantages and disadvantages. (...) That can not be. If you, the principle is clear, can you count the pros and cons but s.drei fingers. Read the Wikipedia article on interlacing. Then you can submit your own question to answer.
Antwort von werner75:
@ PowerMac,
Thanks for Wiki reference. Sometimes you come again next modified. Thus, point 1: Pre-cleared disadvantages.
I do not think, however, if the principle is clear, then realize that in order to meet the 3 finger front and disadvantages.
However, for me, Item 2 is not clear: are in the DV-AVI file with Progressive scan is now before the full frames, or be converted into the Videocam by interlaced scanning s.TV in order to problem-free playback?
Is interesting s.PC available for further whether half or full images.
Gibts to another Info?
MfG
Antwort von PowerMac:
Again, it is so simple:
"DV used as Picture-Resolution720 × 576 pixels (PAL) or 720 × 480 pixels (NTSC). In the PAL format to record 50 fields per second."
DV as a transport medium is an increasingly interlaced. DV as standard can-like any video signal with interlaced but synonymous psf included. Fields into full frames packed. What is ultimately logically contained in the video signal, then interested. Technically interlaced. Logically frames.
Article: "Digital Video". URL: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Video
Article: "Progressive Segmented Frame". URL: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Segmented_Frame
Antwort von ropro:
In gecapturten DV-AVI file is always half frames, synonymous when they are actually made from a full screen. DVStandard
Antwort von PowerMac:
That's true not quite. On tape in the DV stream is always half-images. In a DV file that no longer necessarily true. It is possible synonymous All frames are stored.
Also, forget this unspeakable "DV AVI". This is wrong and very bad expression. There is not even "the DV-AVI.
Antwort von werner75:
Result of the last 2 replies to me:
Time 2 fields on tape, although some blame Videocam Volbildabtastung s.Chip. So is in the Camera of Progressive transformed into fields and then to tape as an AVI.
I had previously only Digicam photo and I was preoccupied more with multimedia PCs and satellite TV s.PC.
Thank you
Antwort von werner75:
PowerMac has yet again responded.
So it synonymous with progressive sampling frames Vidocameras to AVI?
Gibts think very many. 'll Probably ask if you are still in the Progressive Manufacturer of cams. The treatment would be there probably easier.
Thank you
MfG
Antwort von PowerMac:
No, no. Forget this "AVI". AVI has nothing to do with DV.
EACH DV camera always takes a DV stream with a technically 50 fields.
AVI is just another container format in any Windows codecs for video signals. Nothing more. A video file s.Computer-synonymous AVI no longer store it is essential in half frames, but can clean synonymous awarded to full-screen images.
Antwort von werner75:
@ PowerMac
me is clear. In general, but after dubbing
from the DV tape on your PC, an AVI file (container) on the HDD to these data-containing stream. All contested, only sometimes badly or carelessly expressed.
For me it was yet therefore: Manufacturer of Videocam advertise with full scanning of the chip (ie, progressive video), ie 25 frames / sec. Are they really in the DV stream (of course) or are digitally converted by Volbildabtastung in the camera half-frames too. According to your statement: The DV is always half-frames would then be made this change.
If it is, is still seen my initial question why both variants (progressive scan interlaced scanning) and what advantages disadvantages.
MfG
Antwort von PowerMac:
Since DV is interlaced, cameras need to dismantle the progressive image converters with their frames in a transport-interlaced. It is lost but not quality. The camera takes up to t = 1 / 25 seconds for a whole full-screen, the odd lines of the frames are 1 / 50 second later, packed into the first field. The straight lines are written to the absolute time of 2 / 50 second into the second field. The Picture is full screen and it is logical nor lost anything. Therefore, one can directly synonymous progressive material processed further. Simplified: only when one stops rendering, you have to tell his Schnitprogramm, it should not ask them to render 1 / 50 sec exactly, but more than 1 / 25 seconds.
Antwort von Gast1:
It is crucial not to store, but the playback.
If you are a progressive recorded picture will save as fields, wiedergibst but when you play the half-images without the time lag, you get a progressive picture.
If you are an interlaced picture, ie the fields for a 50-sec stel deferred basis and are capturing the fields then wiedergibst without time lag, you get a de-interlaced picture, but no "real" Progressives. The difference, however, often plays no role.
A progressive picture is not synonymous full screen, the lines are still read in succession. There is only one frame in the movies, there are all the "points" of each image created at the same time. At least, if not a real movie will be shown, so make some cinemas even in video projection.
I know of no clear answer to which is better, interlaced, de-interlaced or progressive. Come on to the scene to film and especially on the standing of available bandwidth, editing software and hardware.
CRT TVs can only produce interlaced images, LCD and plasma units only progressive.
The different techniques have been developed into a bit of faith issues. I would see the various Aufzeichnungs-/Wiedergabeverfahren but rather how different painting techniques. Arise depending on the skill, can the available hues, and the substrate each have a good or bad picture.
Antwort von werner75:
Still leaves us with clarifying my original question to:
Videocam: Progressive or Interlaced? Better ask: what considerations lead to two systems with which advantages and disadvantages when s.end are present in the DV stream always two fields each 1 / 50 sec.
MfG
Antwort von PowerMac:
(...) Better to ask: what considerations lead to two systems with which advantages and disadvantages when s.end are present in the DV stream always two fields each 1 / 50 sec. (...) Better ask? Naja. Was nevertheless tells yo you know that you need to differentiate between interlaced, progressive and PSF. The technical transfer is uninteresting. Rather, it is one that logically in the video signal inside. And if it were a single frame into 10,000 10.000stel images shot. Against this background and making cameras that record the frames in real logical sense.
Antwort von domain:
@ Werner75
The example of the FX1 can record the types of beautiful show. As long as you do not go with the exposure time by 1 / 50, the cam captures interlaced. Every 1 / 50 seconds then performed on the tape recording of a "halbaufgelösten" picture, first row after row 2,4,6 and 1,3,5, etc., etc.
Make sure you but the exposure time to 1 / 25 then exposed the camera exactly 25 frames per second, but then writes it into 2 servings per picture after the other on the tape, but these two portions of the same and come out a full screen. The advantage is that you win a Aperture, so the cam is sensitive to light, the disadvantage that vary significantly jerky movements.
Synonymous with the FX1 can expose about 1 / 3 seconds. In this case, only approximately 3 frames per second are recorded. Looks like it's playing like a fast slide show with beautiful motion blur in the picture, just as in photography, if you with 1 / 3 seconds have taken some rather Moving. Each of these frames is then divided into 16 fields and in the manner to DV tape saved, but then again so to speak, with 3 full frames / sec. appears in the editing program. Deinterlacing brings in this case, of course, nothing, just because there are no fields with longer time lag
LG domain
Antwort von Jan:
Once synonymous times a good contribution of our guests (guest 1)!
Again, the real question, eg for progressive documentaries & movies that Inspired the "Kinollook" competing causes (low frame rate, longer shutter time more motion blur), the vertical Resolutionsteigt, but in my experience, reduces the light sensitivity for 25 P, at least in terms of Pana DVX 100 (sorry domain) compared to 50 i, which Lowlightaufnahmen with 25 P with the camera can even cause problems. Progessive working appliances (TV & PC) to make more "impression" with the 25 P included scenes in playback.
25 P but has some drawbacks synonymous zb is blocked off using a DVX 100 same time the AF, permanent white balance, gain and etc /.
Yes the topic is spicy, so many owners of a JVC PD 1 or Pana DVX received 100 of the Progressive wondered why the good old television showed the movies without problems, although it was impossible for the pure frame. It will be recorded simultaneously 2x 288 lines (576) and not, as at 50 i - 2x 288 in succession, which as I said, the horizontal Resolutionbei P improved.
VG
Jan
Antwort von domain:
Yes, I think now we have the issue fully deal really, but believe me, Jan, with the FX1 is really an aperture of the light intensity increased when the exposure time is set to 1 / 25 sec, but the picture just begins in typical fashion to p jerk.
In HC1, however, is at 1 / 25 yet properly interlaced, aufgezeichet also with the time offset fields. This is only possible with CMOS sensors, where an "overlap" Exposure to the fields by selective reading of individual lines is possible, but there the light intensity increases synonymous s.obwohl are then dealing with real 50-i material.
LG domain
Antwort von Jan:
Ne I meant at the same time, the Shutter Interlaced recording brighter, at least the said one magazine, so there should be a difference when one of the DVX 100 for the 25 P mode, or is simply throws the shutter to 1 / 25 sec manual, it should not be the same.
Yes i like 1080 and P 720 vs. Talkshow is already tiring .....
VG
Jan
Antwort von PowerMac:
Of course, limited to the shutter and not the brightness of the readout mode of the image intensifier.
Antwort von wolfgang:
It is clear, I and P slowly fad - like 720 p versus 1080 i. But not dull enough ...
:)
But the ideal would halt 1080 50p, would be synonymous with 720 50p sufficient. It can make all the things you need it - 1080 50i, 720 50i, 1080 25p, 720 25p, etc. Flare 50p material have very different synonymous with Umskalieren Reserves and is in the post much easier than I händelbar material.
I wish the industry would go in the direction of 50p - and for most purposes we would be so rich HDV1 Resolutionvöllig.
Antwort von PowerMac:
The industry moves in this direction. Films and television productions are broadcast in true 1080/50i/60i, but included in 1080/60p/50p.
Antwort von wolfgang:
Eh clear that the industry does. I wish for affordable HD (V) camcorder in the prosumer area who do this - at the prices of today's FX1. The HVX kanns yes, but of course even more expensive.
Antwort von Jan:
SonyHDR SR 1 - I will always sags that a sales hit for 1300-1400 with ¬ 720 and 50 P, the question is likely to be whether the MPEG 4 codec 264 riff a useful quality, even for professionals is the thing a toy, but the politically committed film-maker With a tight budget (like I) are interested in the camera already.
VG
Jan
Antwort von evita2067:
And what do you do if, after 4 hours recording, the hard drive is full? Do you want to lug a laptop possibly still on vacation?
Yes, so s.60 GB hard drive and a comparable quality with HDV could be the thing interesting.
Antwort von werner75:
@ All
Thanks for the extensive replies to my topic.
I've got to start with but many details and opinions.
Interlaced abtastung indeed derived from the conventional television picture tube with the new technology (LCD, etc. brauchts) could not, therefore, the Manufacturer Videocam-synonymous change slowly for Consumer and as already said, where with 50 to avoid changing photos (P) by flickering to . Space would of course be doubled.
Get in now for the first time with my ebay-bought cheap (new) Canon MVX40 gain experience in my new hobby and even to grow a wide angle lens.
MfG
Antwort von PowerMac:
We still need never interlaced. It was introduced to invest more cheaply than a little silly techniques in communications technology and infrastructure. With the interlaced picture tube has nothing to do.
One would have to start with then the logical full-screen images, which would have been in transit for all I care synonymous modulated into quarters pictures ...
Antwort von werner75:
@ PowerMac
Wait a minute, I have to disagree, the TV picture tubes are still i.allg.alle) as controlled (interlaced. This has been so high but the flicker, since with 50 Hz being worked on. (now part of 100 Hz).
Ie, it was an invention of the television picture tubes work with.
Of course, synonymous camera side accordingly required.
And what heist "we" still need never Bolos? The Digi-filmer?
MfG
Antwort von Gast1:
The picture tube gabs) before television (cathode ray tube. And just to make the interlaced flicker.
But how PowerMac corrected now in hindsight, even the invention of the television I would be interested synonymous times :-)
Antwort von werner75:
What now for the heist.
The cathode ray tube is still the picture tube. They (cathode ray tube) was) only ever developed for television picture tube (Ardenne.
All quibbling.
The TV picture tube, then came the interlaced scanning and is still relevant today because of the lower flicker, that is to trick the eye. 25 Hz would be even more shimmer. Läst to read but really everything.
MfG
Antwort von PowerMac:
As simple as the world is not now.
The TV picture tube was not the interlaced. This is logically called out of context, because there is no causal relationship. Coincidentally, the picture tube just at that time, the display medium. Why is it interlaced?
Because in the 40/50ern too little bandwidth had to broadcast an entire 1 / 25 Picture every second. Therefore, we have divided the full screen in two fields that were broadcast just every 1 / 50 seconds. Field transportation was the idea.
The camera technology has then taken over the fields. Thus, the temporal Resolutionerhöht if synonymous, the vertical cut in half.
In addition, the CRT monitors have less geflimmert by 50 fields. CRT monitors can run but synonymous with 25 fps! Or with 150 Hz with tubes have to do anything half-frames. It would have been synonymous, but can come up with the idea, simply show each frame twice. As with the orbital aperture in movies, and the projected each frame twice. So we see 24 logical frames with a frame rate of 48 Hz, so it does not flicker
In the 50s you had to do it the way today. 25 PSF. Add frames to transport in half-frames, as represented frames with additional double frequency. Each plasma screen displays full frames, which must be calculated from fields. If you have a progressive source material, the world is in order. Even with only 25 Hz is true that, 50p better.
Antwort von PowerMac:
Nobody needs interlaced. Awful motion resolution. Awful vertical resolution. For backward compatibility, and spectators habit of "half-lines-looks" but the one dragging the fields and associated problems with them since the 60s with around him.
Antwort von Gast1:
As simple as the world is now not ...
... In the 50s you had to do it the way today. 25 PSF. Add frames to transport in half-frames, as represented frames with additional double frequency. As simple as the world
was not for want. Would have had. If the dog had not been to, would, he'd gotten the rabbit.
As much as you should do it with the then existing analog technology?
Then went / is surely not a maximization, but an optimization of bandwidth variety of programs, affordable hardware / manufacturing / transmission / receiver costs, etc.
No matter what you Turn up the parameters involved, it usually is at the expense of another parameter. Even then. The interlaced image is jerky and fibrillation eliminated / reduced, but the line flicker created first. But just helped to make television for everyone affordable.
And at 50 frames today I could say yes 50p do nich mer. Yes, it probably only flickers s.75 not, right?
The whole discussion whether full-or half frame is simply taken out of context, is at best sub-optimization.
Antwort von PowerMac:
That is too arrogant judgmental. An aesthetics of the frame, you call it "jerky" has been changed in favor of an incomplete motion display with line flicker. That way you're talking about full-bodied from the interlaced, only shows your habit. The "a" is not better than the "other". I advocate both "look s.sich" too, and not by / as the sum of influence habituation phenomena.
(Frames at that time were just as technically feasible and would have changed anything as PSF Transport s.der required bandwidth.)
Antwort von werner75:
And with bandwidth, it has nothing to do. But it's state for the transmission of high image resolution.
PAL 576x25 and 288x50 gives the same amount of data per unit time.
Incidentally, still missing the real answer with what arguments certain Videocamhersteller offer progressive scanning. But I will inquire directly with them. This gibts in the forum so far no response.
Thank you.
MfG
Antwort von PowerMac:
Dear Werner, you read the definition of "bandwidth" in the communications technology by synonymous and they understand. Your use of colloquial, although reasonably fit in digital technology, but it has nothing to do with the analogue transmission. And digital, it was 60 years ago, not yet. You do not have me constantly cope with false half-knowledge wise.
Antwort von PowerMac:
(...) By the way is still missing the real answer with what arguments certain Videocamhersteller offer progressive scanning. (...) Because of the Looks and the increased movement and vertical resolution.
Also shown are the progressive signal on all Darstellunsgeräten better than non-progressive.
Antwort von Gast1:
@ PowerMac
Nonsense. We have then optimized the technical and economic opportunities, uswith the choice of the benefits of interlaced. And the disadvantages deliberately put in Purchase. Finally, it is not just about aesthetics. The people then were not synonymous stupider than we are today :-)
It is not synonymous's about what is better or worse, but what is feasible. Of course, I have always been synonymous would have liked a better picture quality. Meanwhile, there are other technical and economic possibilities, and again a leap forward, but psf is just a part of the mosaic and the improvement of image quality.
Now you have to explain to me again: how did it then, the 25p will be transferred as un fields together again. 25p now jerk me, therefore, have chosen the time to interlace.
So they would have to double synonymous nor the receiver, how? And how great would it have been the recipient ggf? And how expensive? :-)
And yet, please let the controversy because of full-bodied and habitus. I am writing here with you because I have the feeling that you know a lot and I can maybe learn something.
Antwort von werner75:
@ PowerMax
Opposition:
1.Bandbreite precisely determined synonymous in the analogue domain (HF / LF ...) the Resolutionbzw.Übertragungsspectrum of the transmitted frequency, smaller dhwith always wanting more bandwidth to higher frequencies, not the low (eg, 50Hz frame rate) and vice versa.
2. On CRT TV will surely do not receive progressive signals. But that must first be interlaced. But we had before.
What do you mean in connection with the look?
MfG
Antwort von werner75:
@ PowerMac
Excuse for 'Max'
MfG
Antwort von PowerMac:
@ PowerMax
Opposition:
1.Bandbreite precisely determined synonymous in the analogue domain (HF / LF ...) the Resolutionbzw.Übertragungsspectrum of the transmitted frequency, smaller dhwith always wanting more bandwidth to higher frequencies, not the low (eg, 50Hz frame rate) and vice versa.
2. On CRT TV will surely do not receive progressive signals. But that must first be interlaced. But we had before.
What do you mean in connection with the look?
1. Nope. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandbreite
The required bandwidth is on Halbbildübertragung lower than for full transfer. Point.
2. But it's not about "CRT TVs. It is generally to cathode ray tubes and which are capable of anything.
3. Look: http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uobnk/Filmlook.pdf
Antwort von Jan:
Powermac you surprised me again and again, almost always have a suitable answer ready, synonymous when 3 guests bashing on you "! Yes Mac users are indeed in the minority and need to assert itself against an excess of Windoze - but even this will change with time ....
Since we are surprised when you here your picture of the unassuming filmmaker's love with the looks of the micro-directional user performance.
And that is a CRT TVs can only display interlaced is synonymous not entirely accurate, it was a few weeks ago a model - I think it was presented with progressive representation of Phillips and the with the old tube does not ask me how this works or how it is, VAD I think it was presented.
And Werner had already written what can I do / who bring progressive shooting, - well I admit Powermac has with the necessary intelligence / persuasion again more clearly.
VG
Jan
Antwort von werner75:
Thanks for all the info.
The still unclear, I'm still here
http://www.asbyon.com/screen/wissen/technik/003/003_tech_04.asp#fort
found. (transferred accordingly to Videocam).
MfG
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
PLONK (?) What exactly should there not be understood? Is all this really so hard to understand?
Antwort von werner75:
Schleich @ Michel
You just are one of the smartest videographers.
Excuse me, that not everyone is as smart as you.
By the way, do not believe that you have mastered the all-encompassing theme, you think it only.
But everyone is just in its field.
MfG
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
[...]
CD A: "You have to turn the key clockwise."
POSTER B: "What have you written counter-clockwise?"
CD A: "No, clockwise!"
CD C: "Pull the key out easily, you need not open the door ..."
POSTER B: "Yes, what now?" You make me so all quite tame! "
CD A: "Clockwise!"
POSTER B: "All right, thanks for the tips ... I found something else here that I do not understand fully:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uhrzeigersinn"
Thus, reads, or something like that for me. Hence my geplonke. I wanted to know the way, SERIOUSLY, what is not clearly understand it. Maybe I can still help.
So, no offense if I was wrong with my assumption that you're a troll, with the usual charm of the issues creating unrest: what question you might have, so in concrete terms?
By the way, do not believe that you have mastered the all-encompassing theme, you think it only. Maybe not in all details, which for me are not important anyway, but I'll handle it.
Antwort von werner75:
Schleich @ Michel
I know not what you really want, you have not already written views nen meaningful contribution relating to. Did you do next to nothing?
With everything Plonk would actually do it for you.
Should you call a sly or busybodies.
MfG
Antwort von PowerMac:
And you?
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
I wanted to know the way, SERIOUSLY, what is not clearly understand it. Maybe I can still help. I did not think ironic, Werner! THAT was my contribution. I wonder what you will not actually know. You only have a page link that explains where, as the playback device on one händelt progressive "formatted" video file. And one you will now be explained based on the camcorder. (Hmm)
If this is so, then I wonder what the whole thread that has been given in some cases even correct information.
The problem is that there can be explained with the considerable problems in the half-frames, if the questioner does not understand the principle. Someone thinks he grasped das .. then asks something special, regarding this subject ... you can then begin with the reply bit, because it does not fit his understanding of this procedure.
Perhaps I recognize s.Deiner question is yes, WHAT you may have not yet understood.
The third and last time, because after that is too much for me:
WHAT DO YOU WANT TO KNOW?
If this fails, you're just a troll (for me what I'm really not synonymous to blame, right?).
Antwort von PowerMac:
(...) The problem is that there can be explained with the considerable problems in the half-frames, if the questioner does not understand the principle. Someone thinks he grasped das .. then asks something special, regarding this subject ... you can then begin with the reply bit, because it does not fit his understanding of this procedure. (...) Just the annoying s.Werner. He always has got the message. But then again so fundamental issues, which show that he did not even get it. Then this self-righteousness. And try to do anything nauseam pitiful to correct me ...;))
Antwort von Massivo:
Now, this discussion should probably be closed slowly to avoid overstretching the nerves of the discussants.
About a week ago I had the idea for your next car trip (VW T4 camper) back to Africa, instead of a digicam (HP850/4MP) and Film-Canon (EOS300mit 28-200mm zoom) which I took in recent years, I zuzulegen a video camera. Never had a hand in particular, and is uncharted territory for me.
So, Manufacturers, data sheets and Guides scour. Expensive it is not intended to be synonymous and medium quality, so on Ebay, as already written. The cam is still underway. So I am totally clueless with this issue.
So in the meantime provide with theory.
And now I'm probably troll, and it is perhaps synonymous DAU geplonkt. Ifs some fun preparing. What's the use when I stand over it.
My question is really aimed dahinaus the result: I still had a Videocam to buy with full scan. Could indeed be the have a much better picture quality, and perhaps with 50 full frames / sec.
. work Weis yes, I do not. May be yes.
This will work in Normalo Bildrören-TV device with interlaced (50 bzw.2x25Halbbilder/sec) and an image exchange flicker is achieved, I have always known, and work the most synonymous Videocam I had angelesen me. But full scan?
Another arose for me now gegoogle from annoying to some, and from further discussion.
Other questions of my Page does not exist. Weis is not whether there are other opinions. Actually, everything is said.
PS: gabs synonymous among the discussants different views and opinions, so is the theme but not so easily
MfG
Antwort von werner75:
Contribution of 19:12 was of werner75.
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
If you have a plasma TV or LCD television, or want to put the videos on the Internet in full uniform, then a Videocam, the actual 25 frames (not capturing 50) per second, the optimal choice.
For, if an interlaced video on such a screen is considered to be deinterlaced, so the fields do not interfere (which they do on the computer every now and then, if the factory setting is not of a priori set to deinterlace (such as QuickTime)) .
Thus, of course, cuts in the vertical Resolutionin to take buy.
In a CRT television (which I would buy myself still synonymous in the next 15 years), it makes no difference whether progressive or interlace. Not even in the details, since the rest of the details that at the 1 Field missing, with the 2nd Field to be supplied.
The problem arises only if you (no CRT, therefore plasma, LCD, projectors, etc.) and have your playback device does not recognize that this is where to play, to progressive video material. Because then a non-interlace video deinterlace, which gave away will Resolutionbedeutet.
So, now to write full-screen camcorder usually an interlace stream. Therefore, it is not an interlaced material, but progressive video, which only (wrongly) The words "shall interlace". How far the industry has already taken care of this problem, I do not know. In any case, you have to say, on average, the editing program, is full frames. And as long as alleged in the chain up to DVD no instance of something else, which is synonymous aware of your DVD player and your plasma AHA knows ... I do not need to deinterlace?
And nochwas ... the first television broadcasts were synonymous progressive, because it was more possible movie material (and indeed ONLY to send scanned simultaneously) than strolling with a camera tube through the streets. The weighed something around the 900kg. Then the goat had not Leni Riefenstahl, then one chunk to push onto the playing field (especially since there were no synonymous recording medium for these cameras, came "video" does not in any case) in question. So almost everything except run some live studio broadcasts, progressive ... how advanced.
Antwort von werner75:
Schleich @ Michel
Bravo, a first serious contribution of relating to you here with obvious "practical" arguments.
For me it is so, I'm working on living-CRT (Philips best quality) and PC-TFT and possibly in the future to the Internet (set of recording quality is from).
Will now only use the MVX40 times when it comes.
MfG
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
I could not help just now, because I only knew now what you wanted to know --- --- despair, and I have asked ... 3x
However ... Have fun in Africa!
Antwort von werner75:
Thanks Schleich Michel!
MfG
Antwort von wolfgang:
People, I do not know where ye here once again moving towards. Time a little reflection on practice:
- The JVC PD1 - she is filming in the HiRes 576 in true 25p mode - displays via component output on mine LCDs and plasmas a considerable stuttering when panning (no preference is made whether horizontal or vertical). This is the way, with high probability in order to monitor problems because it displays very well there, where this problem does not occur (full HD devices such as Philip). It is therefore not the oft-cited problem is that the motion resolution is worse at 25p - otherwise it would not be a monitor on which this material can be played back smoothly.
=> Conclusion: genuine 25p is recommended for horizontal and vertical panning of the at least LCDs and plasma.
- A far larger issue is the internal display with 60 Hz instead of 50 cycles with the result almost always in movement and panning to jerk.
- Compares to 1080 50i and sober PD1 material on the average plasma, then the 1080 50i material usually is better represented - that is, without Ruckelartefakte. Also, I am actually a supporter of progressive material - but sorry, this is a finding from the practice.
- It is not really necessary to deinterlace 1080 50i material for a plasma or LCD. This is done by these devices entirely himself, and not bad. Frankly, I deinterlace the material is no longer with the NLE, is not synonymous. Otherwise it looks for the presentation s.PC - but that's another story.
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
One more reason to plasma and Co. of the fingers, until the things and the price was harder.
Antwort von PowerMac:
People, I do not know where ye here once again moving towards. Time a little reflection on practice:
- The JVC PD1 - she is filming in the HiRes 576 in true 25p mode - displays via component output on mine LCDs and plasmas a considerable stuttering when panning (no preference is made whether horizontal or vertical). This is the way, with high probability in order to monitor problems because it displays very well there, where this problem does not occur (full HD devices such as Philip). It is therefore not the oft-cited problem is that the motion resolution is worse at 25p - otherwise it would not be a monitor on which this material can be played back smoothly.
=> Conclusion: genuine 25p is recommended for horizontal and vertical panning of the at least LCDs and plasma.
- A far larger issue is the internal display with 60 Hz instead of 50 cycles with the result almost always in movement and panning to jerk.
- Compares to 1080 50i and sober PD1 material on the average plasma, then the 1080 50i material usually is better represented - that is, without Ruckelartefakte. Also, I am actually a supporter of progressive material - but sorry, this is a finding from the practice.
- It is not really necessary to deinterlace 1080 50i material for a plasma or LCD. This is done by these devices entirely himself, and not bad. Frankly, I deinterlace the material is no longer with the NLE, is not synonymous. Otherwise it looks for the presentation s.PC - but that's another story. Toll And what does that tell us? The fact that you have a bad camera and that it does not fit into your plasma. In general, the other is inside any information, in your case and findings from practice.
Edit: That's all right, the 60 Hz problem, the.
Antwort von wolfgang:
No, the statement goes next: 25p today to fit virtually any plasma or LCD - I said yes, I have only one device in the test (found that these problems did not and I have in a media market, but some devices s.The PD1 connected and tested).
Given this practical aspect gave it tell us further that 1080 50i is evident in his playing status for today's HD-Ready 25p rather superior equipment. Unfortunately, I was even more of a fan of 720 synonymous 25p.
And the result tells us next, that is deinterlacing - think about what this very intense - None manner solves this problem.
Antwort von Lucky_Lucky:
Probably hangs together with the fact that synonymous LCD / TFT and plasma, an interlaced display like CRT simulate, as always synonymous. At least a 25p-representation is clearly of a different 50i Dartellung respect to fluid movement sequence, although it is always claimed that these devices may represent fundamentally only in p.
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
Flaring synonymous normal movies on things? No? Strange, is it? The full-screen images are sent in and were exposed more synonymous with maximum exposure times of 1 / 48 sec. Not 1 / 25, which means a greater motion blur.
Antwort von Lucky_Lucky:
What do you mean flickering?
Do you mean general flicker or jerky movement?
Should you have meant the latter case, it would be quite good if you would inform you about the various measures in times 24p silver film, which will avoid the jerk.
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
- The JVC PD1 - she is filming in the HiRes 576 in true 25p mode - displays via component output on mine LCDs and plasmas a considerable stuttering when panning (no preference is made whether horizontal or vertical). Then I went to a (jerk). For a fluid display is 1 / 50 shutter speed in the other is sufficient. I did not say that much in film jerky. What should be the measures for?
Antwort von Lucky_Lucky:
In addition there is a lot to say, but probably not on a video forum. Could it be that you are in the video sector very well acquainted, but somewhat less on the Filsektor? ;-)
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
: OffTopic:
Actually, I am even more versed in the film sector. Rated to avoid me just a few points that jerk. I'm listening. Maybe I will learn something else.
Antwort von Schleichmichel:
The silence in the woods ...
In addition there is a lot to say, but probably not on a video forum. No problem.
Antwort von wolfgang:
Probably hangs together with the fact that synonymous LCD / TFT and plasma, an interlaced display like CRT simulate, as always synonymous. At least a 25p-representation is clearly of a different 50i Dartellung respect to fluid movement sequence, although it is always claimed that these devices may represent fundamentally only in p. Well, you must separate the exposure duration of the interval times sharp, made in the recording. And that is the crux synonymous s.den past contributions - is that this issue was not even clearly separated.
Especially for the PD1, respectively synonymous with 720 25p is indeed happy to say that one should go to an exposure time of 1/25s. This can be, while blurred stop any movement more sharply - eh clear. Personally, I like rather an exposure time of 1/50s of video - this is something that we are simply accustomed to. But this may be a matter of taste, and probably synonymous depends on the desired effect which we intend to achieve with the material.
That the classic movie is not jerky, probably from hanging of another score - Keyword wing panel.
Interesting in this context are likely to be the true 720 50p equipment. The Panasonic HVX kanns already, can the JVC HD200 wirds. But unfortunately, these devices are relatively expensive synonymous ...
Antwort von prem:
The silence of the forest is over ;-)
So first of all must be noted that a motion judder is seen at 24 or 25p only as such when Entret two things simultaneously:
1. A relatively large angular displacement of the moving object of Picture in Picture and
2. a relatively sharp edge of a moving object
The product from 1 and 2 could be regarded as a quasi-constant in the no unpleasant jolting strikes.
The cameramen then fiddle around with their settings are often very long, as they can keep this constant and not exceed.
This, the screen layout (design depth) and synonymous, the exposure time is used (rather long), so both quickly blurred Moving shown. With conventional mini-DV cameras amateur with her 1 / 3 "sensors, however, point 1, at least not very feasible.
In addition, appear to be in slow motion with such reproducing equipment. 48 fps to 24 fps in double exposures copied. It can not, of course, move the whole picture, but the strong moving object in Einzelbildanalysern are relatively sharp, but twice shown. Example of the tennis ball during flight in the movie "The Match" of Woody Allen.
You're absolutely right, in professional films a motion judder is relatively rare, but stop working with all the tricks.
Antwort von wolfgang:
The last point corresponds to halt the action of a wing panel, which indeed synonymous nothing more than to allow double exposures. Now if I can solve mechanical or digital, is indeed time for the effect rather equal.
Most mini-DV camcorders have almost synonymous, the controls to get the thing completely under control - with the higher-quality models gehts perhaps partially, but there are limits.
The angular velocity - so your product from 1x2 - is of course always the critical point. Therefore it seems to be reading in almost all guidebooks that Beginners should not tilt or only extremely slowly. An indication that one stop to heart, but should not always synonymous statement.
Antwort von Hein:
Probably hangs together with the fact that synonymous LCD / TFT and plasma, an interlaced display like CRT simulate, as always synonymous. At least a 25p-representation is clearly of a different 50i Dartellung respect to fluid movement sequence, although it is always claimed that these devices may represent fundamentally only in p. Each progressive-working television (ie, plasma and LCD) turns deinterlace before the picture display. Otherwise we would recognize each other while the two fields are interleaved () picket fence effect.
Poor deinterlacer just throw out one field, which Resolutionführt a halved vertical and temporal. Increasingly, this is "procedure" applied directly synonymous with current soap operas and comedy programs.
High-quality deinterlacer win the representation of movement from both fields, and thus represent true 50 movement phases per second dar.
Antwort von Jan:
The tube TV show is the progressive material
is of the firm Phillips, Model 32 PW 9551, I got up to recently no CRT TVs with component input and HDMI know jack. Trick is a double built-in technology either 100 Hz - PAL or 720 P or 1080i. The part is now a hot tip for HDV signals examine the cut, often gabs for the price is a bigger / better monitor the average synonymous normal television.
VG
Jan
Antwort von wolfgang:
So I think this tube set interssant, Jan. Thanks for the hint. What is the native resolution to be represented? Or will runtergerechnet the Picture on SD?
Antwort von Jan:
VAD had test nen in the issue 5 / 2006, I flew over him at that time only.
The adjustable edge enhancement, no pixel noise, good contrast and natural colors were highly praised. For the computer operation to use DVI / HDMI adapter. 720 P and 1080i it can display, but I hardly think that it makes the native, the testers felt a little behind on pure 720 P Picture. VAD said I think that can represent many cutting Monitors grad mal PAL, Phillips should be getting better by the picture.
At the forum he is synonymous Hifi grad in conversation:
