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Welche Kamera / Welches Format ?

Which Camera / Which format?

Frage von christophmichaelis:
Juli 2008

Hello dear experts!
Here writes a video novice ('m a photographer)!
I hope this is the right place to be.

I would like your help regarding camcorder Purchase / Decision System
to complete. I need for aerial photography of large model helicopters, a leading HD camcorder. When purchasing just three factors play a role. Weight, image quality (usability for television commercials or inserts) and price. Sound and usability from the viewpoint of a normal camera use as play no or only a minor role.
Since I am only a rudimentary idea of resolutions, formats and data streams (Bohemian interlaced-progressive villages with 24-25 people and pubs and a cinema, jewelry dealers with cmos and ccd gems in the window ... etc pp) ;-) I have to help me not to "sell" ... There is already a SonyHDR-HC1E whose images s.meinem 55 "plasma look stunning. But I know not whether I myself the resulting materials are of a professional to the ears would be hewn and if so, why. The picture sharpness and brilliance is what the price / performance ratio is concerned, for my words staggering. Even a very well here often discussed Canon XH-A1 I just check. This is unfortunately quite difficult and can probably overpaid? The budget is variable, but should, if possible, not ¬ 4,000 exceed.
Edit, I just can itself, FinalCut Pro is available.

The camera need not necessarily be current, if the picture quality in high-end range would be. Should read: I buy used synonymous.

Can I get good advice (or two) ;-) give?

Lieben Thanks in advance for some answers ...

Christoph, in search of the best Picture!

Antwort von ef.multimedia:

If the XH A1 may be too much and too heavy is then:

SonyHDR FX7 (ca. 2300 ¬)

If still too much can be difficult and is then:

Canon HV20 / 30 (approx 800 ¬)

Antwort von robbie:

twice does not always better;)

here ghét the next thread;)

Schöne Grüße,
-------------------------------------------------- -------
"A problem is half solved if it was well explained"
-------------------------------------------------- -------
EB cameraman, Producer / Director Live

Note from Mod: Thanks for the info. The double posting, I have deleted.

Antwort von christophmichaelis:

Thanks, that was fast ;-)

Short demand: All of these devices make HDV. Can really small or the Canon Picture Sonyein equal to (not just visually but technically?). That is, so I think my main problem understanding ...

Thank you,


Antwort von robbie:

technically is not a camera to make an identical image;). not synonymous same two cameras. somewhere there will always be a technical deviation.

Send a perfect quality, you will in this price range of course never get, and what better visual image you like, which you must decide.

Antwort von christophmichaelis:

Thanks, but that said, I do not ...
I versuchs even better times to explain ...
A constructed example.

I make a recording. For example, with my HDR-HC1E. Close it via Composite s.mein huge display s.and am satisfied. Then I take the tape or a maximum of good mportierte from FinalCut file and give it to a producer in the hand, which she somehow should fit somewhere. For example, in a small television report with an aerial sequence ...... What could say? Looks nice on his screen, but technically, we can and this is not because ..... ! Would you or the camera or this or that format with the use or cessation of dufte about everything ....

So my question is about ....
Good enough?

Lieber Gruß,


Antwort von robbie:

yes, this is clear. that's what I said send quality. which you will be with all these cameras do not reach. synonymous to me now if you like some people will oppose.
for thou hast no HDV 4:2:2 - sampling, and the chips of the cameras are far too small for an appropriate image sharpness and color to achieve.
that falls to you now of course be considered not separately, but mixed with other material already.

Antwort von weitwinkel:

are the recordings with the HC1 from the helicopter made?
the biggest problem in these recordings is the stabilization of
vibration be ... (So maybe a floating system to schedule).
gruß cj

Antwort von weitwinkel:

ps. maybe the new panasonic hvx171 fit into the profile.

Antwort von B.DeKid:

"weitwinkel" wrote:
..... shots .... from ... hubschrauber ... biggest problem .... vibration stabilization .... ... (ie possibly a floating system to schedule).

But a helicopter is hovering system ;-)
A gyro stabilizer (gyro stabilization) will have more.


How much can the helicopter carry?

(A 4:2:2 Camera is after my opinion too heavy for this specific use.)


B. DeKid

Antwort von christophmichaelis:

Hi ... Thank you.
Heli can carry about 5 pounds (including camera mount 2.5 kg), is stabilized camera mount and vibration-free ..... how do you explain the 4 2 2 problem ... You can the newcomer nem in a few sentences to realize ... What would I need to make "good" material, for example, from its xha-1 to "convert"? The aim in this price class to be the ultimate ..... ?

Lieber Gruß,


Antwort von B.DeKid:

4 2 2 = "standart Farbsampling TV" (note the "")
4 2 0 = normal values like normal Cams XH A1

You think that with an XH A1 perfectly broadcast material can provide. (Arte sollches material would take)

The course may be differences if, for example. a separate TV camera team synonymous material supplies for the event, what you via Heli + Cam dokumentierst ....... of course that is clear.

Now it is synonymous, but remember the helicopter shots are specifically and the producer (client) is aware is that a helicopter sollcher no "Arri" dürch the air lifts.

Thus, one of the principal sites of course, the fullest and in peace, if you eg of an XH A1 HDV material can get.

Whether Sony or Canon is just no preference, weight and quality should be crucial.

4 2 2 as far as I know is synonymous in this price segment not represented among the HDV cams.


As an alternative, one could perhaps even at HV 20 / 30 put to good ..... WW adapter might already rich. (We can take Sony synonymous, but because you need someone else to give a hint, I know myself only with that from Model)

B. DeKid

Antwort von christophmichaelis:

Thanks ....

The only one in the segment, which provides 422 (used about 4,000) is the pana hvx 200 .... with 100 mbit / s .... DVCProHD ...

But here is the picture quality but not particularly good discussion ....
And here I would like to know what is more important in the processing? Krachendscharfe images in HDV format with the "inferior" compression or "better" with the "worst picture" but 25p?

Are genuine Bohemian villages still do for me?

An additional question I would have still synonymous ... How is it technically, to declare that the picture will be better if the bar off?

Dear greetings and thanks for the time and trouble ...


Antwort von robbie:

"B. DeKid" wrote:
4 2 2 = "standart Farbsampling TV" (note the "")

Because I have witnessed in recent days have so often read, and I always hurt the eyes:

Standard, non standard. grusel ...

The latter is the standard, the way it is.

Achso, now I always thought heli-shots are those with a real helicopter, where one drinnensitzt etc. ..

It would be much easier now to better help if you knew exactly what the respective cutter has to claim. The picture sharpness? The picture quality? The colors?
That would be good now to know;).

And oh yes. In arte you with material of an XH-A1 rebuff. Slowly zipft me this "is synonymous my camera and as accepted as" talk here in the forum already so. There are technical guidelines, s.die you have to hold, and the XH-A1 comes with arte certainly not into it.
From the technical guidelines for HD, arte:
"Originating material: for example, HD CAM, HD-CAM SR, DVCPRO 100 HD, D5, film
(HDV and up-conversion "of SD inadmissible ...)".

Antwort von PowerMac:


Antwort von B.DeKid:

Hmm so I thought it was like here seen or read
The document "Requirements for the provision of broadcast material for ARTE GEIE" covers the technical requirements for broadcasting tapes and for subtitling.
>> PDF File - May 2008 version

MPEG2, 30 Mbps
i-frame. avi,
Encoders Matrox
Digiserver "


of the Page
Thus, it forever ......... So if the HD with the Cam-STANDARD true synonymous Xl1h or S270 no Sendetauglichen cameras? So somehow I can just be difficult to imagine.

(Is it possible for all shipments made sollche format "high boost" ....)

Who explains to me because at times now, please?
Yes no Will a camera which does not recommend "broadcast" material supplies.

So I will just continue to maintain a Heli with Cam and HDV 4 2 0 but more than enough to be around to film certain scenes.

He Kännte you maybe as a good friend .... Sony Model if the XH s.zu hard. Because it is so finally went to the topic.


B. DeKid

Antwort von Bernd E.:

"B. DeKid" wrote:
In ... ... So after forever synonymous Xl1h no S270 or Sendetauglichen cameras? ...

Apparently not in HD production for other channels so synonymous HDV very limited at best to accept. In SD-productions should be material of these cameras, however, be used - the two are linked technical guidelines once for yes and once for HD SD.

Gruß Bernd E.

Antwort von B.DeKid:

Ah ok
I saw in the HD Powermac 's link but when I had comments about the standard, the Mir of linked page in the eye.
(Also just because I only recently about the video sendetauglich make
Also I received Arte synonymous here as "normal" Arte synonymous and have no HD Ready TV.


But relating to myself now I've got times via compatriots Camera Test

Canon XH A1
SonyHDR FX-1 / 7 ... HVR-Z 1 / 7 ... PMW-EX1

All under the kilo but the price indicating significant differences.
I need s.Heli no mic, but this can only s.der expensive EX1 decrease as it seems.
So I think you maybe on Z7 optics because of the change could tap, but otherwise I think a clear price performance thing ..... So Canon XH A1.


As I said payload weight of 7 kg für nen RC ( "petrol") helicopter is more than ok, I think times.

Consequently, larger cameras actually gone.



B. DeKid

@ OffTopic

Could you mount the camera s.den Heli perhaps explain,
perhaps in sepperatem thread that would intresieren me something like this was created?
Also transfer and eventual control of the axes (angle of the camera), are points which I would intressieren.
Thank you.

Antwort von raymaker:

Nimm halt ne HV30, or equal to two. The makes the FX1 or 7 (if any one of them) in the image completely flat.

Only just barely manual options, but here are irrelevant.

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