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XDCAM HD PDW-F350 durchgefallen

XDCAM HD PDW-F350 failed



Frage von Pianist:
März 2007

Fine reading s.alle good day!

Today I have me a PDW-F350 hired and extensive rehearsal recordings. Conclusion: The workflow I like to be very good, but the camera head has failed. The whole picture is simply not good enough. Not only in the gray area, but especially in darker color is the color too high. It is also, I have failed, so the material after SD to convert that there is an adequate focus on a normal television has. On the other hand, see the pictures with my 12 year old Ikegami much better. Apart from that there is a lot less pixels and the picture on a large flat monitor is not good can be portrayed. But I do now of a normal tube TV from which the majority of people for many years in the living room will have.

That is unfortunately the sad truth - and I will probably next for me after the appropriate HD-camera look.

Matthias



Antwort von robbie:

Hello Matthias!

Very interesting review of this you hear!

Can you give details of your experiments do?

What lens did you use, and to what gain field, you have the color is observed? As for a motive, you have used?

350er I tested a few weeks ago, and I was nothing like this on. Also, the sharpness was converted to SD, very good.

Schöne Grüße!
Robert



Antwort von Pianist:

"robbie" wrote:
What lens did you use, and to what gain field, you have the color is observed? As for a motive, you have used?

On the rented Camera Fujinon is a HS18x5.5 (this is a good Halbzoll HD Lens) and I did everything to O dB rotated. The fact that the gain in this camera is unusable, I already knew before.

I have many pictures in the middle of town rotated, ie with moving cars and so next. The Color performancewar overall not so good. And then I have at home in my kitchen and made some shots there fell to me especially the problems with the dark color on. So the overall picture is just not good. And everything that roars, just makes the codec synonymous problems.

And then just the problem with the blur. Both the full-screen playback on the PC monitor as synonymous runterkonvertiert on the video monitor several shots were just not sharp enough, however, are my Betacam SP recordings with the old Ikegami much richer detail. And I'm talking about because of recordings, which in theory really can not be blurred.

Somehow this is totally crazy and I'm baffled.

Matthias








Antwort von Jürgen F.:

Hello pianist
But since you are "cold" on the bottom of the beta-like world ...
Schade. It had you here in the forum but for this camera and the XDCAM HD system so strongly made.
I now just ask me: have all the 350er testers around the world deceived or cheated of SONY gespons ...?

There was recently a 350er btw with a system here in Cologne.
We have the Picture on a Panasonic 2600 LCD monitor laid --- Grausam.
Even after an hour, it is the technicians with operating instructions and set-ups have failed, you described of the error.
Even Sony settles this format between HDV and HDCAM in. What is always hot mag. The Camera is synonymous still quite expensive.
Wait until the NAB is over ... and then decide for yourself.
Maybe you can but with the P2 workflow friends.
Maybe then there IKEGAMI more codecs.
Maybe you should you for your migration to HD synonymous set a clear budget. Have you already determined.
Viele Grüße Jürgen F



Antwort von TheBubble:

"Pianist" wrote:
Both the full-screen playback on the PC monitor as synonymous runterkonvertiert on the video monitor several shots were just not sharp enough, however, are my Betacam SP recordings with the old Ikegami much richer detail.


On the occasion would have been a test chart abfilmen, to delete the entire Resolutiondes to determine objectively. Would certainly be interesting to make an objective basis to get.



Antwort von likajo:

perhaps look to the comparative
an HDV Cam of canon (H1/A1)
Borrow?
gruß cj



Antwort von Pianist:

"Anonymous" wrote:
perhaps look to the comparative
an HDV Cam of canon (H1/A1)
Borrow?


Rather not ... :-)

Matthias



Antwort von r.p. television:

Schade.

Had already fully synonymous to this camera is set.
Will it still times me out.

LG Mike



Antwort von Pianist:

"rp television" wrote:
Had already fully synonymous to this camera is set.
Will it still times me out.

Sure, the most in any case, times itself, maybe you like it so. Mir jedenfalls nicht. In the English-speaking forum (dvinfo.net) hack it around on me just because I dare to do anything about this camera to write. I fear only that the Americans nothing of good quality to understand and have no real Comparison ... :-)

The one at the Sony Roadshow wanted to tell me so synonymous that his shots really look good, but I fear he has no real synonymous as a benchmark because it is probably a previously UVW-100 and then a DSR-370 had. Of course there is always a certain amount of increase, if one of the bottom comes, but a camera is indeed not improve, because other cameras are even worse.

Matthias



Antwort von wolfgang:

A pity - I was hoping that you are after a long search finally is "your" device have found. Even an idea of what you as the next device ansiehst?



Antwort von Pianist:

"wolfgang" wrote:
A pity - I was hoping that you are after a long search finally is "your" device have found. Even an idea of what you as the next device ansiehst?

Not the faintest glimmer. The only camera, which in theory in the election comes closer, the Ikegami Editcam HD. However, the first four devices in Berlin (also the first in Germany), almost around the clock, so just because a larger documentary series rotate, consequently, I have currently no way to test your own recordings to make. The Editcam HD is of course considerably more expensive and add the conversion, then the future of the original material on hard disks to archive them.

The Editcam HD come in the coming months for some hardware and software changes, which is synonymous not yet fully mature.

P2 yes, I generally tape format and also because I just do not stand up HD VTR wants. And the solution, a Panasonic DVC PRO HD (HDX 900) to take next on cassette and then turn the cassette camcorder via FireWire and Avid in the copy, I am not so much synonymous. Apart from that I think of Panasonic cameras of even less than Sony cameras. At least of those who are not with "DVW start.

So wait and drink tea, fortunately there is still no very urgent need for action. The booth is still plenty of digging tube monitors and build it into a wall, so that my films look pretty good ... :-)

Matthias



Antwort von Bernd E.:

"Pianist" wrote:
... that the Americans nothing of good quality to understand and have no real Comparison ...

Everyone has the right to their own opinions, and if your claims so far beyond those of cameramen, production companies and broadcasters who are already long and successful working with XDCAM HD, then you will probably malic acid in the expensive Ikegami bite them. Other hand, you write in dvinfo.net mutatis mutandis: "After a few test shots I see in corporate videos and documentaries, there are no benefits for a Camera, which is more expensive than the PDW-F350." Since I had read that it was not so bad?

Gruß Bernd E.








Antwort von Pianist:

"Bernd E." wrote:
Other hand, you write in dvinfo.net mutatis mutandis: "After a few test shots I see in corporate videos and documentaries, there are no benefits for a Camera, which is more expensive than the PDW-F350." Since I had read that it was not so bad?

That was my thoughts after the first test shots, which I unfortunately do not under ideal conditions could watch. Only since yesterday I am able to send me a true opinion. This opinion seems dvinfo.net but not wanted to be there because my thread was just closed.

I have by mail, however several users confirmed that they also see these problems and currently try to circumnavigate. But I would not use the camera, when I continually have any weak points to take into account.

Matthias



Antwort von Schleichmichel:

Then the forum is perhaps in the hands of Sony:)



Antwort von Jürgen F.:

@ Pianist
"I fear only that the Americans nothing of good quality to understand and have no real Comparison ... :-)"

Good that we have you ...
Strong Tobak.

Regards, Jürgen F.



Antwort von Pianist:

"Jürgen F." wrote:
Good that we have you ...
Strong Tobak.

Let's be honest: How to NTSC because people get a feeling for color and contrast get?

Incidentally, I know exactly how a good picture should appear. And I know many people who know synonymous. What differentiates those of myself: I have the XDCAM HD least angetestet times, while the others have said the same, that the waste of time. But I like to illustrate my own opinion - and not synonymous claim that my opinion synonymous for all other users must have validity. Everyone should ask his or her own experience and then make their investment decisions. I any case, buy this camera.

Matthias



Antwort von Quadruplex:

[quote = "pianist"]
"Jürgen F." wrote:
Let's be honest: How to NTSC because people get a feeling for color and contrast get?

Such a Schmonzes ...

In the studio and on digital TV broadcast (or DVD) NTSC is not a problem. Analog machines must stop calibration and s.Vectorscope see if the correct phase position. Get a few current DVDs from the USA (and 'nen region code free player), or look, if you find it somewhere, a few laser discs from the late 90s on. The color of NTSC are only for analog broadcasting is a problem - and is synonymous in the U.S. on the retreat.

Incidentally, even in Japan uses NTSC. The Japanese television NHK has long s.NTSC gefrickelt (which were PALplus similar stories) until analog broadcasting synonymous with the color was stable. Incidentally, they have always been synonymous with Japanese thoroughness worked ...

So please do not compound-free Kloparolen ...



Antwort von Pianist:

"Quadruplex" wrote:
So please do not compound-free Kloparolen ...

I admit yes, just a little provoked to have ... :-)

But the fact is now time that the viewing of an image is always subjective and it is done very much on their own experience and the comparison tribunal. If someone with a DV or Betacam SP cheaper technology (UVW 100) has rotated, then he may really feel that a better picture to see. Good is the picture so far.

Thus: Same look and judge yourself.

Matthias



Antwort von TheBubble:

"Pianist" wrote:

But the fact is now time that the viewing of an image is always subjective and it is done very much on their own experience and the comparison tribunal.


That was my suggestion, at least once a resolution test chart at shooting, quite seriously. Based on discussion of readings is equal to much more relaxed :-)

The perceived sharpness is partly subjective and depends synonymous of the contrasts from s.Bildkannten.

What Color performanceangeht: A test synonymous picture says more than many words :-)



Antwort von Pianist:

"TheBubble" wrote:
Based on discussion of readings is equal to much more relaxed :-)

In principle, of course, agrees, but then always comes quickly to the accusation that we only look at the readings and not on the actual picture and the eye as it likes.

In any case I'm pretty clueless synonymous and a little sour, because our producers so this whole issue just of the industry was eingebrockt, which suddenly felt only flat screens with many pixels to produce, because we are already in the 70s was told that in 2000 the Television flat as a Picture s.der wall.

And the same industry is not able to offer our cameras, which are apart from the many pixels synonymous still quite incidentally, provide a good picture.

But I'm the client and expect the industry to produce what I want to have. And not vice versa, that I am forced, technical compromises to make, because my films otherwise not in a sufficiently good quality can be played back.

Because somehow it is quite an impertinence, if the competent Sony product manager says: "The tube is the reference" - but is unable to make HD CRT monitors to offer affordable Money.

I'm seriously at the superior, in the SD area to stay and simply switch to 16:9, which this year absolutely must, because the news at 1 July switching and thus synonymous sure all the regional news broadcasts in the ARD switch.

Then I think industrial customers precise requirements, as they are my movies on the screens so again give that impression of the picture is good. And if somebody really is in HD, I send him to a competitor and let him make his own experience ...

Matthias



Antwort von Jürgen F.:

@ Pianist
"that you just look at the readings and not on the actual picture and the eye as it likes."

Of course, the impression Picture a big role, but it is always subjective and therefore come to me first "values."
(When I needed the 350HD will not)

@ Pianist
"I'm pretty clueless in any event synonymous and a little sour ..."

That's right now not at all.
The buyers wanted to ever larger TV screens. There was at some point of the tube at 36 "physical conclusions. The buyers wanted no synonymous wardrobes as television in the living room for you. The running of the technique was synonymous not be stopped. With Introduction of DVD movies synonymous wanted all at home. But who tell I am here. The story is so well known to all ...

@ Pianist
"And the same industry is not able to provide us cameras ..."

Nonsense:
The industry (broadcast) is very probably such cameras and the whole equipment. Only a matter of investment. Or you ask of an XDCAM HD Halbzoll a high-end HD recording.
You as a customer do not need to make compromises, everything is available on the market - but not complete. 20.000 .- ¬.

Of course, the HD-tube of SONY reference - but for 50i.
For this reason synonymous currently booming Full HD beamer.

And not only the news but the whole ZDF program to 25.06.2007 converted to 16:9.

@ Pianist
"And if somebody really is in HD, I send him one ..."

If in this case you have problems, call me. I will help you out with HD.

Regards, Jürgen F.








Antwort von Pianist:

"Jürgen F." wrote:
If in this case you have problems, call me. I will help you out with HD ..

Then tell us please have a look what device you use. You turn with an HDW-750 and you have something like an HDW-2000 s.Schnittplatz?

Matthias



Antwort von PowerMac:

"Pianist" wrote:
(...) And the same industry is not able to offer our cameras, which are apart from the many pixels synonymous still quite incidentally, provide a good picture. (...)


Your Ikegami you were synonymous not get free.
Quality costs. The Editcam is also expensive. The HPX2100 with P2 and 2 / 3 "wilt thou not. HDCAM is too expensive and tape. XDCAM-HD is bad to you. HDV anyway. I would really HPX2100 harddrive times with this. In the current cameraman is the usual Teltec flyer, there is something about the ...



Antwort von Jürgen F.:

"Pianist" wrote:
"Jürgen F." wrote:
If in this case you have problems, call me. I will help you out with HD ..

Then tell us please have a look what device you ....

Matthias


Sorry, only now come to you to respond.
You've already taken from my answers, I'm actually a "P2-Man" - in any case, I prefer this system.
My producer and I have us in the autumn a HDX 900 Pana increased. With HD-optics, which I had already.
The impact of HD productions, we make with this system. For one-off and for its Final Cut Pro lends itself to a colleague being cut 1400 HD recorder. For backup we use the recordings HVX200. Fits great together.
We had already synonymous but several times a HDW730/750-Body rent, because the customer is already in Munich to HD-cam had produced.
This situation will continue until about May not change until the Pana HVX2100 after the NAB on the market dropped, with the new P2 card prices. Of course, I will synonymous the HVX500 metrologically times at them, but ...
Do you have the time with the EDICAM-X10 durchgerechnet how expensive the Fieldpack2 are. Since you have after 90 min. synonymous backup.
Do you have images with a CMOS sensor views? But at least they can 720/50p. Interesting: Sonywehrt against this resolution. Why? What is it with Grass Valley (Thomson) "Infinity" - will now move to the NAB with a CMOS sensor "revived". Both formats 720th .. and 1080th

You have in your environment, but provides a system where all models can be tested extensively, you should not with in the kitchen take.
If you have a small, cheap Foretaste 720/50p have to want, then lend / Get But, just HVX200, make this an AND 720/50p to watch with your customers times the material (even a fast ICE) on a HD Reference Monitor (1280x720 enough) to.

Regards, Jürgen F.



Antwort von PowerMac:

Is this so with the ominous job HPX500 inc 4x16 GB P2 cards for 15.500 euros ...



Antwort von Pianist:

"PowerMac" wrote:
Is this so with the ominous job HPX500 inc 4x16 GB P2 cards for 15.500 euros ...

Has someone researched, reflecting the fundamental differences between the HPX500 and HPX2100 lie? Somewhere, the price difference is indeed coming. The HPX2100 with Viewfinder, Microphone and five cards are added after all, to around 38,000 EUR. I fear that again because the basic quality of an image hinhauen, we may just 15,000 EUR for no really good HD camera build. Just say that quite unseen.

Matthias



Antwort von Pianist:

"Jürgen F." wrote:

My producer and I have us in the autumn a HDX 900 Pana increased. With HD-optics, which I had already.
The impact of HD productions, we make with this system. For one-off and for its Final Cut Pro lends itself to a colleague being cut 1400 HD recorder.

A HDX 900? How beautiful, I want the next test. But times say: Why, he borrows a MAZ? One can but the HDX 900 by fire pond anstöpseln. Off will probably not go inside but should work, both in Final Cut Pro as synonymous with the Avid.

What is your opinion on the Picture of the Camera? And times have you randomly with a normal SD broadcast optics rotated? I would probably start by testing whether I use my Canon J15x8IRS can continue in 2/3-Inch-Chips the chance to be yes.

Matthias



Antwort von PowerMac:

There were times as a comparative test and the SD-optics were not exactly the hit. To HPX500, only four instead of 5 P2 slots and different CCDs. The HPX500 has the CCDs of the HDX900. The HPX2100 has newer, newly developed chips.



Antwort von Pianist:

"PowerMac" wrote:
There were times as a comparative test and the SD-optics were not exactly the hit.

Well, there are very different indeed synonymous. Those who only has a professional Optics, which gets more problems than someone who has a decent broadcast Optics has. I will then in due time debug.

Matthias



Antwort von Bernd E.:

"Pianist" wrote:
the fundamental differences between the HPX500 and HPX2100

Some PowerMac has already mentioned, two more seem to be that the HPX2100 to h.264 recording can be retrofitted and the HPX500 has only one filter.
The prospectus of the HPX500 with all the info you'll find the way, here as a PDF:

www.avtplus.de/files/pdf/panasonic_hpx500.pdf

Gruß Bernd E.








Antwort von Jürgen F.:

Hello pianist

"Why he borrows a MAZ ..."
Quite simply, one still turns, the other cuts have ...

So far we have only our HD optics of Canon 11x4, 7mm and 21x 7.8 mm used, but I had already written about earlier, let your 15x8mm times by Kolimator free and you'll see ...

The HVX500 has definitely worse CCD 's than the HDX900 otherwise I would immediately order. There is also this HVX500 +4 x16GB tickets for 16,000 .- ¬ (without Optics) option has no HD Viewfinder (but just a normal part) here. But just behind the hand, is closer to NAB.
One thing is certain: HVX500 with Variable Frame rate, but no retrofittable AVC-264-board (which is interesting) otherwise quite slimmed down. One sees it s.Stromverbrauch been synonymous: only 22W / h and including Viewfinder display - that is clearly classified as "big brother the HVX200.
Also for the HVX 2100, there will be a package type. Try it once. Does everybody Pana-Dealers.
I felt the picture very nice, similar to Varicam. Disadvantage: Camera is slightly heavier (body naked around 5Kg). And the power 44W / h. But in the age should be in HD anyway more of Tripod rotate.
Regards, Jürgen F.



Antwort von Pianist:

"Jürgen F." wrote:
Quite simply, one still turns, the other cuts have ...

Good, this is obviously a strong argument ... :-)

I will be the mill test times. At the moment I walk with an 11 n.schweren camera around, so everything a few n.leichter is an improvement. And since I always already to 90 percent shooting from the Tripod will be HD for me to be no big change.

Me is the solution in any case cassette sympathetic than anything, where I need to copy data. A pity that there is no HDCAM with fire pond there.

Matthias




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