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pre de-interlacen für LCD TV?

pre de-interlace for LCD TV?



Frage von surject:
Juni 2006

Good morning;)

I have VHS-C material via DV / Firewire digitized, edited in Premiere, plus an animated menu in 3dsmax and create chapters for googleearth fraps'ed.
The 3D Ani, I intended to render with 25fps full screen in google earth ... but I've captured with 50fps and distributes them to the premiere fields so that the flights are completely fluent in a tube TV. The video footage I had before synonymous, beautiful in the original condition, then interlaced to leave if I go to MPEG2 encoding and all brutzle on DVD ...

Now I have but I informed me, how all this works on an LCD TV ... I knew vornerein in that LCDs are not interlaced and de-interlace the whole thing.
In addition, I learned that ordinary DVD player to send de-interlaced interlaced material s.den TV ... and this will again support the de-interlaced (toll), except the two devices, Progressive Scan, I hope to have understood this right so far.

Now the question that concerns me ... everywhere it is said, "let's s.TV video interlaced if you look" ... agrees to pay for tube televisions, but niergends I found something in the event that you just s.einem the entire LCD TV will look.

My fear is that this super-duper LCD TV's (yes, am not a fan of it, I hope at times SED) in most cases a decent de-interlacer and who often work only in the procedural BOB ...

But as I sharpen the greatest importance to the liquid (and) put the image, ie 50hz aka 50fps (fields), I wanted the material is still interlaced only leave .... I really have no idea how an LCD television, the material on the Mattscheibe brings, as well the de-interlacing works, and especially how fluent displays the google earth flights (and all other movements) on a LCD TV then?

If the 1st Field doubled and s.Schluss I see jerky 25fps? possibly even blurred by blending or bob?
And if so, how can I prevent this problem? With an intelligent software de-interlacer? But which? And what kind of de-interlacing? Or are the de-interlacer of LCD TVs as smart and destroy the 'fluid' of the fields not? Would that be in 'motion compensation' the case? ... not by just looking: ~

Would really appreciate any help and comments!

surject

ps. maybe someone knows whether SED can render them without de-interlacing fields?



Antwort von Markus:

Hello,

Your assumption can be interlaced, the video is correct. Each video output device, whether it be a CRT, LCD, plasma TV, a rear projection TV or projector that can deal with interlaced video. Too, can circumvent SED Television and will be progressively working with interlaced video.

Course, it depends on the quality of representation on a clean deinterlacing. It is wrong, however, that the flat-screen TV can not or only insufficiently. Look's like this: broadcasters deliver interlaced video, video player (be it VHS, DVD or hard drive) and characterized interlace video on almost every consumer camcorder does synonymous.

It is therefore an absolutely necessary basic function of each progressive working flat-screen TV to deinterlace the incoming video image. Of course this can not all equally good television, but one part is developing the next technology continuously and the other not everyone buys a cheap flat screen televisions.

I would not orient myself to the fact that many contemporaries a schlechten Television
Mehr noch: Wenn beispielsweise die Reaktionszeit eines LCD-Fernsehers schlecht ist, kannst Du das in der Postpro nur bedingt berücksichtigen. Genaugenommen wirken auf einem solchen Television ausschließlich statische Bilder ohne viel Bewegung. Am besten noch with weichen Blenden, keine Hartschnitte. - Würdest Du Deinem Videofilm wirklich diesen Maßstab anlegen wollen?

schlechten Television
Mehr noch: Wenn beispielsweise die Reaktionszeit eines LCD-Fernsehers schlecht ist, kannst Du das in der Postpro nur bedingt berücksichtigen. Genaugenommen wirken auf einem solchen Television ausschließlich statische Bilder ohne viel Bewegung. Am besten noch with weichen Blenden, keine Hartschnitte. - Würdest Du Deinem Videofilm wirklich diesen Maßstab anlegen wollen?

schlechten Television
Mehr noch: Wenn beispielsweise die Reaktionszeit eines LCD-Fernsehers schlecht ist, kannst Du das in der Postpro nur bedingt berücksichtigen. Genaugenommen wirken auf einem solchen Television ausschließlich statische Bilder ohne viel Bewegung. Am besten noch with weichen Blenden, keine Hartschnitte. - Würdest Du Deinem Videofilm wirklich diesen Maßstab anlegen wollen?


So my Panasonic plasma TV delivers fluid movements without jerking or other pleasantries. Learn more about this here:
Other ideas: I have a plasma TV ...

Related topic:
Field - Full Screen



Antwort von surject:

Thank you for your answer,

can handle that LCDs and Co. with interlaced material is clear to me. The question is whether it would be smarter to the material prior to de-interlace with EVEN corresponding software as the de-interlacer of LCD TVs destined 'worse' than the good de-interlacer / processes on the PC.
OR is this all just bad news, because the DVD player so again an interlaced signal, and it makes the LCD TV back then anyway even de-interlaced ...?

Quote:

So my Panasonic plasma TV delivers fluid movements without jerking or other pleasantries. Learn more about this here: Other ideas: I have a plasma TV ...

->
Quote:

Does he have made of the internal 50p-50i-a video image?


THAT is the most important question ... were the case, the movements were just as fluent as on a CRT TV with 50hz (times of little jerks due to the asynchronicity 50fps <60hz> unfliessend?

... and what is with the sharpness of their movements? ... think that then comes to the de-interlace method on it to bob (adaptive, motion comp. etc.)?

Regards

surject








Antwort von surject:

hmm, got fitted out with <and> inadvertently commented out:) could not edit, sorry

Last paragraph should then read:

THAT is the most important question ... were the case, the movements were just as fluent as on a CRT TV with 50hz (times of little jerks due to the asynchronicity except 60hz and 50fps btw) ...

But this is now or make LCDs from 50i 25p, ie unfliessend?

... and what is with the sharpness of their movements? ... think that then comes to the de-interlace method on it to bob (adaptive, motion comp. etc.)?



Antwort von Axel:

Salut surject,
do concur with Mark and only two points to emphasize. Here I call Ross and Reiter (brand and type designation):

1. I did once the wedding video for my brother-in DV PAL SonyVX included with my 2000th This just had a 107 cm appointed Panasonic Viera plasma, and I worried how it would look like the DVD. Mark synonymous advised me to keep the interlaced video in such a way and I said (almost verbatim) to you:

Because it sounds only logical that a translation in real time can never be as clean as when I give a calculator all the time in the world.
However, if it jiggles the film on the tube, it just stays as it is!


Both the Viera plasma as synonymous my own new 107er LG LCD 37 LP 1-R are SD material to the extent that it would be progressive in the original. I could not believe myself at first, but I have a direct comparison possible by the Panasonic AGX 100 of a friend from our Video Club (the "p"-DVD of it). Really: Virtually no difference.

The test with three different deinterlacer proved a flop: Either the picture was too muddy on the twice interpolated HDready (on tube's okay), or was the motion resolution was) scary (jerking.

Mark is certainly right. I have the impression that there are many worse synonymous devices. But I am assuming that in spite of the subsequently repealed interlaced using rather looks even worse.

2. The connection of a too-progressive capable DVD player (via YUV) may improve the picture (if in the original "p"), it was visible at least on a medium-Player of Sony (Typbez. unfortunately forgotten) is not. I think that a difference only in a high-end players, and synonymous only then falls into a critical eye.



Antwort von Markus:

Axel Thanks for your support. :-) I would have "fallen surject" failing to act through the possibilities and make himself a Picture of it.

"Axel" wrote:
Because it sounds only logical that a translation in real time can never be as clean as when I give a calculator all the time in the world.
However, if it jiggles the film on the tube, it just stays as it is!

->



Antwort von surject:

hmmm, thank you for your support:)

nich, it's just simply believe that an interlaced signal comes across as good on nem LCD / plasma, as on CRT ... but you (axel) and seem to have experienced it .. then I believe you, now just once:)

'm just worried that it converts the 50i to 25p (like eg the de-interlacer "premiere in there because it's just 25 frames, with the google earth appear jerky flights, at least not fluently on tube)

I test quite a lot, but unfortunately the whole more or less ne überaschung should be for someone and I have not got no LCD:)

Now, ok, let's views, I interlaced the google earth flights with fraps 50fps, do draus fields (as has already been tested for all tube), let's hope the original footage interlaced synonymous and that even 4-5 years old .. LCD Recipient which is reasonably good ... would be so bad about the other expenses, especially with Google Earth .. I have many concerns as flights of destination destination to capture and editing: ~
And it should be shown the entire stop already fluent and sharp (like on tube).

I see the mpgs on my computer at the tft windvd, it looks quite bad from each process, as helping the 'progressive' deinterlacer from windvd synonymous nothing, is not fluent and clear image, if not totally blurred as long synonymous with BOB.

The only good intuitable is the original capture with fraps 50fps (synonymous when it jerked a little bit because of the 60hz), but fluent and sharp.
The capture 25fps is too jerky.
And the exports of 50fps interlaced MPEG captures (as synonymous of the films themselves) are shown as I said .. bad.

.. I think that's why I'm so suspicious of what LCD de-interlacing terms.

sorry, I too much rubbish: ~

thanks
surject



Antwort von Gast1:

Although I'm not quite understand what you are with 50 fps and 60 Hz mean, but you can jerk ggf with Frameblending or wegbekommen Pixelblending.
If you have access to After Effects, put your clip there as he is down, add the reply says to PAL and should use either frame or Pixelblending. That should bring a fluent clip.

Otherwise, I can only connect to other SD-PAL would always) interlace (issue and it is on s.besten tube still. Progressive, in conjunction with SD-PAL is a good thing better when scanned films, and synonymous only if you have the appropriate players.



Antwort von mkrawietz:

Quote:
Although I'm not quite understand what you are with 50 fps and 60 Hz mean


you can get a PAL film never completely fluent without the slightest stuttering on nem 60Hz TFT show, asynchronously. (Not even ntsc 29.97)
But as I said, does not bother me.

Frameblending etc. is not necessary, I have probably misunderstood.

All I want is that the full 50-interlaced images will appear sharp and smoothly on an LCD (without BOB and co.) And not as 25p (joined 50 fields to 25 frames) jerky output.

Thank you for your nerves:)

surject



Antwort von Axel:

"surject" wrote:
Now, ok, let's views, I interlaced the google earth flights with fraps 50fps, do draus fields (as has already been tested for all tube), let's hope the original footage interlaced synonymous and that even 4-5 years old .. LCD Recipient which is reasonably good ... would be so bad about the other expenses, especially as regards Google Earth ...


Also I have an approximately 4 years old LCD, and is actually good in a tube, in every respect.
In any relationship - you know what I mean.
If Google Earth is so important, but let these images progressively. You could simply another MPEG-ausrendern Stream and the clips in the authoring program (for example, will join in Encore timeline 2.0s). When we have projects from different cams, let's always be synonymous, there is little overhead.



Antwort von surject:

jo, I'll do this way or that way:)

google earth is indeed chapters'menu '...

ere is thus separated from the main film

I think I need to take the real test somehow ... sniff

when it's unrecognizable presented interlaced sowas Of course, I rather preferred 25p .. it is not absolutely fluent ...

surri



Antwort von surject:

very small interim ...

've got a rolling text test made good on ner tube and a very expensive new samsung lcd with 1920x1080 and s.nem dvd player that supports progressive scan and upscaled synonymous ... tested over hdmi.

but since, as I said, the whole test was just s super fast smaller until I can now say only one thing ...

--
the interlaced material was completely fluent, so there was nothing of poor de-interlace to see and even less of 50i-> 25p .. otherwise it'd geruckelt:)
--

progressive 25p .. was fluent in any case .. but did not put a flag synonymous, rolling text was not simply wait on the interlaced interlaced bisl complicated background .. .., when I test next opportunity.

how it directly in google earth looks like, we'll see ....

But what can I say synonymous, and I think that should all be aware the picture looks sooo much better on ner tube: ~

LCDs should just be purely material needed for HD imho.

Lata

surri

ps. like the whole 4 years old on the cheap LCD will look like is another question ne ... but the main thing is, there is the LCD's can really ...
And in later TV's which hopefully will remain the case ...
is not our fault if the charge can not even squeeze into the ar ch * A simple and enforce standard: /
Variable frame rate ... best of 15 to 100: ~

sorry

eh, surri:)








Antwort von Markus:

"surject" wrote:
... A simple and enforce standard: /

By the standards of this is such a thing. History has repeatedly shown that prevail at times the inferior systems. Example vs. VHS. Vs. Betamax. Video2000. A recent example are the interfaces vs. USB. Firewire. ;-(

LCD Television, I think in principle not so sparkling. In the dark they bring no real black and s.einem summer they do not come up against the brightness. - So we are waiting for SED-Television and buy us as long as plasma.

BTW: In the new federal states, there were 30 years ago already SED TV. ;-)



Antwort von Axel:

"Mark" wrote:
LCD Television, I think in principle not so sparkling. In the dark they bring no real black and s.einem summer they do not come up against the brightness.

As has been done in recent years, but some. The contrast range is widening. I really wanted to buy a plasma synonymous, but after trial marriages virtually all models with their own DVD (which I know by heart), I have yet again opted for an LCD. If I had the space for a 50-inch - device, it would become a plasma (not because there are no LCDs are available in this size, but because I liked the pictures here have s.besten).
Samsung had MUs not the worst pictures, but too expensive and far worse than Sonyoder Panasonic. LG was better than Samsung, but significantly cheaper than the other three, which is synonymous, of course a factor.

On "good tube": those who now runs through the media markets and look at the poorly-controlled flat-screen TVs with a weak signal and wrong aspect ratio, will believe that its tube completely inadequate.
That's true. The good Plasmas and LCDs do, but my opinion is already better images than the good tubes.




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