Frage von LarsP:
Have Postpro in the Forum here read that DV cameras due to the compression of color for blue screen shots are not so well suited and are therefore better 4.2.2-cameras should use. Hence my question: is an old Betacam SP Camera actually better than a professional DV Cam?
Antwort von andreas jigme:
Hello,
So I will now not in technical detail battles made
purely subjective, but I find the Beta SP format is clearly better.
Figure light, colors, contrasts, etc. ...
This is a subjective feeling of the EB film s.der Beta SP was trained. Was until recently broadcast standard.
In my experience it is really much experience with DV Cam to have nearly as nice pictures with Beta SP to get.
This is a subjective impression. Unfortunately, everything is analog and you have the problem with the stuff Digitizer ... but then synonymous with the appropriate equipment.
Have fun. (and 4.2.2 the coding does it determine the rest of this ...)
Andreas
Antwort von BjörnF:
Regardless of whether you like somebody here now contract, which makes it by Farbkomprimierung actually is better, a BetaSP Picture alone by 2 / 3 "inch chips and the corresponding Optics normally better than DV.
If you now but more the "old" in the foreground, a run-down 300 synonymous look much worse than IR.
Not to forget that you have your material is not just with the camera in a calculator to play, but synonymous in the post must be upgraded.
So I would not do, and take a good DV.
Björn
Antwort von nightworker:
I have the NV-GS 500 and finally bluescreen shots made. The keyen was so easy, just went nsuper. The potential is there, you have the blue screen and only light well.
Antwort von Marco:
The lighting is good for Chromakeying in practice much crucial as the question of whether DV with 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 with Beta SP is used. Moreover, synonymous with the use of SP-camera how it would go further.
How goes with which device on which the cut card into the calculator and how is it then - in what color space - further? If the consistently 4:2:2 should be, except the Camera would be a few other, not exactly cheap, investment still remain due and finally the light setting when turning the key factor.
Stay with DV and used together with the chroma-keying a smoothing. That's enough for a very very good results.
Marco
Antwort von nightworker:
or buy you ne HDV!
Antwort von r.p. television:
That with the HDV, please do not take seriously! Because of the much greater compression than DV are much more color information than DV lost (yeah, synonymous if the picture is sharper subjective). But that should significantly keying severe (without it in direct comparison to have tried).
But when should a DV Chroma auskeyen with roughly the same good results as a BetaSP video.
As for where DV 4:2:0 by any information lost by compression saves you turn any keying problems by analogous problems, such as color, head fire, brightness, noise, etc.
Antwort von Axel:
A proposal of Mark:
It was not my question to the Blue or Greenbox, but the question Lumakey or Chromakey. Würde mich echt mal interested to know whether you (or someone else?) Have any knowledge about this then why amateur filmmakers with their camcorders more often unsuitable for sub-optimal keying method (ie Chromakey) to decide, although it is a more appropriate alternative (ie Lumakey) there ...
_________________
Liebe Grüße
Mark :-) ... So to new German: White Screen. Quick test. ne `white wall will probably find ...
Antwort von Debonnaire:
... Because of the much greater compression than DV are much more color information than DV lost (yeah, synonymous if the picture is sharper subjective). This is incorrect! "HDV" is simply
NOT the simlulierte real-time MPEG-dung, the Sonyand us a few others as "HDV to MiniDV tapes to turn on! HDV
is better than DV or Beta SP, but only
REAL HDV, which is based on hard disk recorder or P2-sticks will be stored and pseudomässig-up with a DV camera just has nothing in common!
HDV true that creation of a complete production pipeline for the result, one must of course be aware: Because topleistungsfähigen goes without a multi-core PC with powerful RAID system and a new recorder, or at least blue-ray DVD Burners, together with appropriate HDV -- DVD authoring suite, nothing more. And this will cost thousands!
Antwort von mw:
Uhhh, folks, this was meant seriously:
HDV has also Farbwertabtastung of 4:2:0 and is therefore considered
relatively equivalent with DV, but not in absolute terms!
Because if the result in PAL Resolutionausgegeben will reach you with an HDV recording runterskalierten A WITH 4:2:2 comparable Farbwertabtastung.
For 4:2:0 simply means that in relation to the image size, the color a factor of 4 smaller Resolutionum have: 720 / 4 = 180Pixel
Sun: and now expects the times with 1440 pixels from!
Antwort von ThomasX:
Hello,
Have Postpro in the Forum here read that DV cameras due to the compression of color for blue screen shots are not so well suited and are therefore better 4.2.2-cameras should use. Hence my question: is an old Betacam SP Camera actually better than a professional DV Cam? with a DV camcorder (even with a professional 3-chip camcorder), you will never be decent keyen can!
If you have an old Betacam SP Camera with component outputs use, you can use the 4:2:2 signal digitizer and thus generate clean Keys.
Greeting
Thomas [/ quote]
Antwort von r.p. television:
@ debonnaire:
PS2 sticks? I think you do not HDV but DVC PRO HD. That is something quite different. A system with 100 Mbit with HDV and its 25 Mbit to compare is very bold.
REAL HDV is exactly what ends up on the tapes. If you think the signal is what the HVX200 on PS2 Sticks and optimized disk recorder records of FOCUS, it is not HDV but rather DVC PRO HD. I think you wanted to say REAL HD. True HD is Although HDV somehow synonymous, but the motion resolution is very limited content.
@ guest:
Already clear, but then try times an HDV - video with fast movements in front of the bluescreen to keyen. Looks very nice. Have tried auszukeyen dancers.
Even a downscaled PAL Picture (an HDV recording) has a worse view than a motion DV - Video. The very small artifacts form a sort of beads s.die outline edges of the protagonists. And it looks Comparison DV or SP is simply not so good.
Anders is very quiet when image content auskeyen must. Then offers HDV in fact, more reserves.
The bottleneck in HDV is not the color, but simple and easy to 25MBit data.
Or why did DVC PRO HD 100 Mbit? For fun is certainly not.
Antwort von r.p. television:
Again, I:
The proposal to ThomasX has written, is not bad.
If you're only almost the camera head on a Beta SP Komponentenzuspielung on a digital editing system directly (with a high data rate) jungle, you'll no longer have problems. Then you do bypasses the analog recording hiss.
I have been a synonymous DV CAM signal and an HDV signal can be properly keyen. But is significantly dependent on image content, the optimal illumination and movement than 4:2:2.
It could be synonymous a Canon XL H1 and take over the HD SDI output directly "real" HD on the cutting system. Then there's no more restrictions. However you would need hardware s.Schnittplatz - and that's not quite cheap.
Antwort von Marco:
"with a DV camcorder you'll never decently keyen can!" Then I have in the past have gone wrong ... ;-)))
Marco
Antwort von mw:
@ debonnaire:
Or why did DVC PRO HD 100 Mbit? For fun is certainly not. Yes no synonymous uses interframe coding only intra-frame and is therefore less effective. Is a Comparison of apples with pears.
Nevertheless, I will not deny that DVCPRO HD Keyen for even better suited. And even better is HDCAM SR ... just what our questioner is using this info?
Antwort von r.p. television:
Regardless of the effectiveness or on the coding:
DVCPro HD is simply a better motion representation.
And synonymous with the Keyen may play a role.
Antwort von almosely:
I have not synonymous in doubt
Antwort von LarsP:
Thanks for your extensive contribution!
About different camera formats as DV / DVCAM and Betacam SP, we have not yet thought of, because HD Cams for us is not currently eligible. First, because we are only PAL and production plan to another because the mills Betacam SP and DV camcorder good in comparison to good HD cams are quite favorable.
Regarding the further we have the Matrox Xtreme Pro RT.X100 views, since they are already for an alleged DV Keyer offers very good (on subsampling 4:4:4). It is of course the question of how this card is the 4:2:2 material of Beta SP further ...?
Antwort von BjörnF:
Regarding the further we have the Matrox Xtreme Pro RT.X100 views, since they are already for an alleged DV Keyer offers very good (on subsampling 4:4:4). It is of course the question of how this card is the 4:2:2 material of Beta SP further ...? The RTX100 analogy has only an S-video input. So nix to BetaSP adequately in the calculator to get. For this you need an analog component input (YUV).
Björn
Antwort von LarsP:
For this you need an analog component input (YUV).
Even at the risk that we now deviate from the original topic: what kind of card you would need for example?
Antwort von Marco:
Something like how a DeckLink or AJA card.
All waste of money if it's just around the Chromakeying goes ...
Marco
Antwort von LarsP:
The DeckLink cards appear not too expensive to be (only had s.die Matrox RT.X2 and the thought is yes at 1700 ¬).
To waste your money Comment: what is your proposal then, what the development of Blue-/Greenscreenstudios is concerned?
Antwort von wolfgang:
That with the HDV, please do not take seriously! Because of the much greater compression than DV are much more color information than DV lost (yeah, synonymous if the picture is sharper subjective). But that should significantly keying severe (without it in direct comparison to have tried).
Like HDV DV 4:2:0 - why do so in the comparison between the two "more color" lost? And the fact that the down conversion of HDV to SD even a higher density in Farbsampling arises, was out anyway.
True HD is Although HDV somehow synonymous, but the motion resolution is very limited content.
Sure, HDV2 as synonymous HDV1 are just consumer formats, while DVC PRO HD is a professional format. The movement resolution, I think at times HDV2 was not restricted to that is perfectly ok as it is. Movements of a FX1 will be dissolved and liquid out. In HDV1 it is different. But the aspect of motion resolution rather with the question to do, whether in 24p, 25p or even 50p in 50i or records.
Even a downscaled PAL Picture (an HDV recording) has a worse view than a motion DV - Video. The very small artifacts form a sort of beads s.die outline edges of the protagonists. And it looks Comparison DV or SP is simply not so good.
The bottleneck in HDV is not the color, but simple and easy to 25MBit data.
So you can with DV-AVI but keyen well? Rather, I believe it's the difference between a non-frame format and an inter-frame format. The fact that the data are different - always clear. The data stream between DV and HDV is the same, and with DV gehts so perfectly, as you've written above.
But on the whole should be the church in the village can be. Good lighting is still a lot more than the differences discussed here, the recording formats.
Antwort von Marco:
I had the top yes schonmal opinion. It is still not a single component. You might want with an SP-camera shoot. Then you'll need at least one synonymous SP player to view the material components to be able to restore because SP cameras have no component outputs. Then you need a card like the DeckLink. And then no termination quality to have the material you have to be uncompressed YUV record. To do this you need a quick turn-Raid system. Then a piece of software that YUV to RGB converts.
Since the total and additional hundreds of thousands just like that. And all just because chroma keying? What did you do? Would you like for the BBC to set up a virtual studio? Daily or SFX for movies or commercials with highest spin? Then the burden would be justified, but not enough.
I would be a DV camera with the best possible use of color. Or just an HDV Camera. This makes the whole process backwards schonmal considerably simplified. Eighth in the software that the chroma-keying makes the possibility of using a chroma-Smooting use. The synonymous already offers some editing software.
>> What is your proposal then, what the structure
>> A Blue-/Greenscreenstudios is concerned?
What precise objectives you from? On the equipment and the establishment of the colored and the lighting?
Marco
Antwort von Markus:
... So to new German: White Screen. Quick test. ne `white wall will probably find ... The Lumakey seems
too absurd. Then maybe in a video card with component inputs to invest. ;-)
