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Adobe Premiere 2.0 HDV-Bandexport mangelhaft und nicht nativ

Adobe Premiere 2.0 HDV tape export flawed and does not natively

Frage von r.p.television:
Juni 2007

Hello together!

When working s.privatem HDV material is yesterday when a bomb hochgegangen me.
Because I Orignalmaterial with post-filtered material to compare, I created one after the other HDV original recordings (Source XH H1) and already export to HDV tape rendered HDV clips on my Sony HDV recorder via HDMI on my full - HD-Panel views.
They were with me in the filters (contrast, Farbentsättigung) in Comparison to the original tape in pans and movements of significant artifacts on the protagonists. Actually, I was accustomed these artifacts, because I always already exported HDV material angeguckt have.
On the assumption that the filter and the associated recalculation - not native export - for the artefact formation were responsible, I have the filter turned off and the Project (quasi selected raw materials only) to export to tape (HDV) new calculate.
Shocking result:
Premiere Pro 2.0 addresses the HDV material in any way natively. The recalculation has disastrous consequence to artifact formation.
The worst is: With very few exceptions, I was accustomed s.dieses result, because I rarely compared original recordings. I just trusted the manufacturer, the recalculation of the non-use of filters purely natively - without Qualtitätseinbußen goes.
I would be pleasantly surprised what the HDV originals for a performance in the movement offers, so if I do not angepisst about the fraud of Adobe would have been.
I already have a large raw material and pre-written back to tape. Partial original tapes are already overwritten.
Now I have the salad, because I have a company familiar.

Now, perhaps a bug in my environment (no idea - graphics card, etc.) to exclude others but I would AP2.0 User (synonymous in their own interest) to ask these Maladministration reviewed.
Is very simple:
When recording from the tape of this error is happening yet. Is easy to verify by looking at the statues with strongly considered moving scenes.
Now once again just the same sequence on tape output and new in the Calculator capture.
Now both sequences (originals and Exported material) side by side on the timeline and put the frames compare. For me, the material is already exported partially correct as Artifact salad.
Unfortunately I have only now, after almost a year noticed ever since I first original material in the calculator games, and select it there on a full-HDV tape archive.
And I thought that would halt the difference between 100000 euro for HDCAM and HDV (for me 9000 Euro). The fact that HDV is so good but if I had not expected, because on the original recordings are just very difficult - if ever - to find artifacts. It has only one natural motion blur on that one but just to find footage.

Would be helpful synonymous experiences of users of other NLE editing systems like Final Cut Pro or something. Because apparently must be the HDV stream to be recalculated. The question is only whether anywhere with these losses in the moving-picture (quiet recordings show no difference). Probably the only AP2.0 HDV Engine flawed.
Have the impression that several of this phenomenon on the glue gone, because nobody came up with the idea that the export to tape with such errors is on the stage. Apparently you have to check everything and companies can no longer be trusted.

For me as an immature Adobe product on the market that, in truth, no native HDV editing dominated, only to not to fall behind in a new window.

Until then, liebe Grüße, Mike

Antwort von JMitch:

Because apparently must be the HDV stream to be recalculated.

There is a very good nonlinear editing, Pinnacle Studio 11 pros with Smart Rendering, synonymous in the case of HDV.

Antwort von Maik:

"rptelevision" wrote:
Would be helpful synonymous experiences of users of other NLE editing systems like Final Cut Pro or something.

My Project, which just finished today, has no such
of differences you described.

Was shot with the SonyZ1, cut on Avid Xpress 5.5.
The off is not, despite some effects from the original material to be distinguished.

Hope it helps,


Antwort von FAN:

The problem should really be known.
AP before each issue a complete re-render film and this is at the expense of image quality (artifacts from movements).
To get around this you can plug the HD-MainConcept of use, which is but then again with 400 euros to account for.
This works with the so-called smart rendering and calculates only the changes.
Simply try the test version, I have made it synonymous.


Antwort von semicologne:

Can you already predict whether this is a problem in Premiere CS3 is removed?

Antwort von r.p.television:


Thanks for the hint.
Unfortunately I was not aware of this deficiency, because on the homepage of Adobe native HDV editing the speech was. Even in a test in a magazine was the processing of native speech. So I do not synonymous and was made head of the Faith, the post would like lossless DV & DVCAM go.
I have not synonymous wondered about the artifacts, because so much of it written and I was at the price difference to DVCPRO HD and HDCAM synonymous expected nothing better. Since I now know how (relatively) well now but the recordings are annoyed me very much.

One may well None Product longer trust.

I will probably plug of MainConcept free and likely to acquire a positive result, since I started many projects and have s.Premiere bound bin.
What annoys me is the loss of quality of past projects and raw material pre-synonymous. I would be the 400 euros have been and now I have the damage, because any wrong product market strategists give details.

Before I 400 euros just for a plug-in will output - for CS3 is probably this shortage still exists, right?

Antwort von JMitch:


because on the homepage of Adobe native HDV editing, the speech was

Naturally processed PP2 native material, what else?
It is after the newly cut durchgerendert because the s.Stellen with effects, filters, titles, compositions is needed, this must be yes in the material are included. After a good post-production remains so little from the actual source material. And the complete rendering has the advantage that the entire video the quality is consistent.

Now to your quality achieved:

The described quality of your recordings with loss of motion is not comprehensible to me. I can express myself in my projects do not have a quality loss in PP2 complain, just in my other NLEs.

What settings do you use in detail in your work for the rendering in detail, please?

Oute times and you can ask here for a screenshot, maybe we will come to your problem a little closer.

Antwort von JMitch:

"rptelevision" wrote:
One may well None Product longer trust.

You must know. Only you have of "native" editing content a little misconception. That means only that Premiere HDV material directly can open without it in a different format to convert them.

Since HDV my knowledge, always 15-frame GOPs used and never shorter (here I am not 100% sure) would be a cut without recompression only possible if the exact cut marks on the GOP ends lie, which in practice is virtually never the case.

Antwort von JMitch:

That would be really the joke of the day when every AP ALL new durchrechnen, where it is only the first cut GOB with a new I-frame should provide.
There must surely in New compress the hook Rausser

Antwort von JMitch:

That makes many of the prosumer NLEs synonymous class so Adobe is not specific.

Antwort von AndyZZ:

"Anonymous" wrote:
That would be really the joke of the day when every AP ALL new durchrechnen, where it is only the first cut GOB with a new I-frame should provide.
There must surely in New compress the hook Rausser

And then everyone has a different GOP length, times 12 frames, sometimes fifteen, six ... Or do you have only one cut in your video.
I know the DVD or HDV specification is not exact, but of variable GOP, I have yet heard nothing. Who knows anymore?

Antwort von JMitch:

This would then mean that each additional 15te Picture a picture and it is again part of images (? B-frames) can be calculated.
I refer to the working times of Miro DC1000 and AP, then there is the First and the Last GOP reduced unless new rendering.

Antwort von JMitch:

Here again is an issue designed, where there is none there!
The operator knows that not enough!

Antwort von AndyZZ:

"Anonymous" wrote:
Here again is an issue designed, where there is none there!
The operator knows that not enough!

Then help him!
Tell him what he does wrong.

Antwort von JMitch:

Schieb times over the crystal ball ...

Antwort von AndyZZ:

"Anonymous" wrote:
Schieb times over the crystal ball ...

The thou hast already, otherwise you could hardly say:

"Here again is an issue designed, where there is none there!
The operator knows not! "

Antwort von r.p.television:

@ guest:

I know I already made. I was clear that synonymous premiere because of the GOP structure s.Schnittkanten partially recalculate must (if not synonymous filters or transitions are set).
But first calculates the entire work area, if you export the tape to the elect. I was clearly synonymous, because the frames within the GOP, new groups to be allocated or the I-frame must be redefined.
That with the checkmark in the New Compact for Premiere is only when you export it as a file. But not when exporting to tape. When exporting to tape, you can activate only two buttons: cancel or rendering. There are no other settings. Also in the project settings HDV1080-50i are not rendering the video settings for the band to set up export.
Premiere but actually calculated everything new.
And with a huge loss of quality.
Do this now with MainConcept tried and now looks identical to the exported material as the raw material. Just as I expected.
Premiere I always saw the errors of which I thought they would be part of HDV. Has already been frequently reported. I already imposes itself almost suspected that many a worse impression of HDV, since it only exported material have seen. Just as I do.
The differences are quite visible. Even my girlfriend, she noticed that without her I said, where the fault lies. She said that it flickers like blocks.
Where in the original with a swivel on a group of trees only minimally the focus went into the cellar, was after the premiere export a veritable storm artifact on display.

Do not know if you're the same the next synonymous above has written, he could not have a quality loss complain. Do you use the Export Volume? Because of this within Premiere, you can not enable smart rendering. Premiere calculates the complete timeline and the work area again.
Would like to text clips are pure, but unfortunately do not have FTP servers that I set and they can link.

Antwort von r.p.television:

Oh yes:
To supplement:

Very revealing is the rendering with the demo version of MainConcept.
Here, a watermark is stamped everywhere, s.der actually be re-rendered.
The watermark appears for a few frames of synonymous s.den set me cut edges (without transitions or filter)
There are apparently new I-frames set for GOPs. Ask me whether the GOP can be reduced here, because I do not synonymous with variable GOP HDV know. Ask me how at the MainConcept make. Because disappears after 1-12 frames and the watermark is synonymous with the rendering of huge only smart rendering specified.
Premiere must be because of the GOP re-render everything, because no new GOPs without a new rendering can create.

Antwort von smooth-appeal:

According to the website of MainConcept is the demo version did not "smart rendering" capable ;-)

Antwort von Atope:

@ rptelevision,
there's something wrong with you do not have any artifacts when rendering to HDV tape and synonymous not on file with the standard version.

If it is how you write it, there would have been the world after a year a huge outcry, where ...

You turn it out with your problem s.Adobe ...

Antwort von r.p.television:

@ smooth-appeal:
Do not know where you've read this. The demo version can be very smart rendering (which otherwise a demo version when it is just as important to me).
It is but normal scenes rendered a watermark appears and the band output stops after five minutes. Thus element 5 prevents the use without a license key.

@ atop:

Umgehört myself and it is apparently a well-known? Error? of Premiere Pro 2.0. The indication of native HDV editing is synonymous only editing - NOT THE ISSUE on tape. In this Bauernfängerei I'm just purely synonymous fallen.
And since Premiere 2.0 (at least in the version I have not synonymous HDV file as a file write, but only in the HDV tape output dominates, one can not synonymous as film export the box "New Compact" to disable.
Unfortunately you can not reason Adobe s.den carts drive anywhere because of what lossless defenitiv edition is indicated.

I can only advise every, exactly, look at that. When calm pictures remember you do not synonymous, but for pans and fast motion in the picture are my original material to significant artifacts (and I mean artifacts - no motion blur) can be seen. Give me an email address or an FTP server and I send you two video files into original as synonymous in export quality. Whoever does not recognize difference, has either not suitable or not my peripheral quality.

PS. Are you with "On File with the standard version" a DV clip?
Because of course no one can see artifacts.

Antwort von r.p.television:

Jetzt nochmal JPEG Comparison. Is not optimal for the unpleasant Flimmerwirkung of the artifacts in the video image to show, but you can see the artifacts in exchange for the original:

Scene shows speedy swing. But without pans are synonymous (minor) artifacts visible when protagonists move quickly (and at s.hüpfen).

Antwort von r.p.television:

And again a swift swing landscape. Here it is necessary to enlarge slightly so that the artifacts in a single exercise. In the video, they are very, because the Picture regelrecht flickering artifacts times because the strong - weak times .....

Antwort von Atope:

Hilfeee ... So something I've never seen, I would smooth away the NLE with ...
There is something fundamental is not for you, perhaps it is the MC encoder corrupt, install the new times.
In any case I would charge times Adobe!

Antwort von JMitch:

Maybe the camera made?

Antwort von r.p.television:

"Anonymous" wrote:
Maybe the camera made?

Ahem ....
First, read! What I am sending two pictures of the same time code location?

@ Atopy:
I recently reinstalled and synonymous yesterday in a panic attack on a second PC herumprobiert.
Always the same results.
The rendering engine for HDV export to Adobe is simply beautiful .... e!
I wonder why they are so slow.
'm No rocket scientists but much wrong you can do so not in Premiere.
The MainConcept encoder is more than twice as fast and gives the HDV in the same picture quality as the original from.

I would not be surprised if some users after checking the exact same result.
As I said, I thought synonymous until the artifacts were originally of the camera, because never tested against.

Antwort von smooth-appeal:

Holy straw bag ... Does the scary out. That looks so a blind man with the stick in the bush because what is ;-)

Although I have PP 2.0 but no HDV material for a comparison to be drawn. Think times but the artifact formation in this extreme form is not common - but if I am at the latest warrior in obtaining my new Camera a seizure and pray to God that this "bug" with the CS3 update from the road is cleared.

Sowas software should be expensive in my humble opinion, not going to happen.

Apropro CS3, the Production Studio actually delivered?

Antwort von JMitch:

[quote = "smooth-appeal"] Holy straw bag ... Does the scary out. That looks so a blind man with the stick in the bush because what is ;-)


The nasty thing is / was:

In Test 1, it is obviously an extreme example, ie a very fast swing, change lighting conditions, etc. - and it is synonymous only one frame, which looks so extreme. But it disturbs but the overall impression.
There are Videoseqenzen, which are not occupied with artifacts.

The difficult is that you on a full-HD LCD for the deinterlacer Nachzieheffekte generally, which make it difficult to assess whether it is compression or error of deinterlacer.

Unfortunately, most video material is not as obvious as shown above vermurkst so that it is the deinterlacer can.
There you will have to be to really test frames to compare.

I was quite as described above is the first time that the original-and export both Full HD panel as synonymous in the editing system to compare. And then there's me an egg from the trousers rolled ....

I think the HDV engine for the export volume was a quick shot of Premiere to s.Markt mitmischen them. Quality does not track. Unfortunately, I liked it and voted merely the HDV system Qualtätsmängel zugeschoben.

Antwort von r.p.television:

The above post comes to me of course.
Always this automatic logout ....

Antwort von JMitch:

The MainConcept encoder is more than twice as fast and gives the HDV in the same picture quality as the original from.

This statement surprised me, as a standard is already the MC encoder s.Bord (holding the version without smart rendering) and thus funzt it with me without any problems in fine quality.

Antwort von r.p. television:

Now something must argue.
I have Premiere Pro 2.0 release, immediately after purchase.

Where is there for you always the MainConcept encoder shows been?
I did it only in the Adobe Media Encoder to MPEG-2 or MPEG-4.
But I do not want the HDV file to create, but for archiving and presenting back to bring tape.
Even if I am with the MainConcept encoder in a file to create a good image quality, I ja through the bottleneck "On export tape" - and the HDV happened with the engine of Adobe gezeiger in quality.

@ gast top

Do you export to tape and tried synonymous with the result of the MainConcept encoder compared?
As I said: When I agreed to the export-quality tape since the plug of the Smart rendering MainConcept encoder.

Antwort von smooth-appeal:

What ever next above, I do not think it is not the "smart rendering" is or are you so fast in cr4ck3n? ;-)

Antwort von r.p. television:

"smooth-Appeal wrote:
What ever next above, I do not think it is not the "smart rendering" is or are you so fast in cr4ck3n? ;-)

Leb I am behind the moon or what is that supposed to mean?


The me of errors described above occur at synonymous ONLY Premire internal BAND on EXPORT.

I think that synonymous not only the option "Smart Rendering" which brings improvement, but the additional tape-export tool of the fee-MainConcept encoder, the internal volume of exports even shutting down (it is only light and no longer clickable).
MainConcept has probably no coincidence improvement required here gewittert and 400 euros for the plug-in that works solely for APP2.
If the tape Premiere 2.0 export would be so great, nobody would probably buy this product (as I now gezwungermaßen).

The created files with the internal Premiere MainConcept encoder (no smart rendering) are synonymous in my class - but what do I get if I take this quality does not get back on tape. Not everyone wants to wait until BlueRay Bastel solutions or a la media servers, etc. accepted.
I do not have fun on a 3000 Euro HDV Recorder (Sony) were purchased.
I was really sure which option would be to export volume stable, verlustfreieste archiving format.

Antwort von smooth-appeal:

Excuse please, I have "cracker" meant and would not write so explicitly.

As you will to purchase the plug-ins do not come around. Echt schade Adobe here was so careless. Perhaps there is someone still so synonymous with a better solution to this problem daumendrück * *

I luckily still have the hope that it will be better with CS3. Otherwise I will order such a plugin is synonymous not come around because I have the finished projects to tape to secure.

Antwort von r.p. television:

Cracking ...

And I wanted the numbers as phonetic encoding.

But I do not cracking.
Hab mir encoder with the keys already bought. If you have a small fortune for Camera & accessories, recorders and computer cut spending, you should s.Schluß not s.sowas save.

Funzt fine.
Especially since you now have a native HDV file "on the fly" on tape to play. From the timeline, it works even synonymous "on the fly", but the encoder must have been naturally filter and render transitions (quasi sets a temporary folder).
In any case, is much faster and better than the lame-export of HDV premiere.

Has anyone actually tried, whether with him under the same conditions the same artifacts occur.
Perhaps it is just because that my APP2 version was one of the first.
Maybe yes was tacitly renewed ....

Antwort von JMitch:

Before the dialogue for the termination of the tapeübertragung beeendet, can you look at the tape transfer for the created file through Explorer from the directory and watch. The file is called: HDVExport.hdv2. See burglary because no quality!

Antwort von smooth-appeal:

"rp television" wrote:
Cracking ...

And I wanted the numbers as phonetic encoding.

But I do not cracking.
Hab mir encoder with the keys already bought. If you have a small fortune for Camera & accessories, recorders and computer cut spending, you should s.Schluß not s.sowas save.

True, especially if you work professionally so the price is synonymous in order. I was the purchase of Production Studio while overcoming some cost but the time pressure and the free upgrade to CS3 have any doubts then I forget - For 1.7 k synonymous's a bargain:)

"Anonymous" wrote:
Before the dialogue for the termination of the tapeübertragung beeendet, can you look at the tape transfer for the created file through Explorer from the directory and watch. The file is called: HDVExport.hdv2. See burglary because no quality!

If so, it can only export s.der interface output for the band, or it is really a repaired version.

Interesting topic!

Antwort von JMitch:

"Output Volume" was yesterday, today -> hard drive, media card, disc ..

Antwort von smooth-appeal:

Yes and no, for archiving, I think the band issue is very important and consistent data as hard drive and Co.

Antwort von r.p.television:

I see so synonymous.
I am safe so parallel to 500 GByte external USB disks. The you can use for non-synonymous to the shelves. The files are already as such, always with the same start and end points abgreifbar directly into the NLE einbindbar.
But when times crasht the harddrive, I have the same file again as HDV tape on the shelf. And vice versa.
How do I play yet its HDV videos? The best solution is still of a proper HDV recorder.

Antwort von smooth-appeal:

Is there really a cheap solution?

I have always only urteure products gestolpert to a poor sow me as the last shirt and underpants, the same with out * g *

Antwort von JMitch:

How do I play yet its HDV videos?

HTPC, Network Player, PS3 Blu-Ray ...

Antwort von wolfgang:

So I have now viewed the picture examples. If this really is the best thing in the rendering of APP HDV2 material brings together - then good night. This is synonymous not a question of playing, but really a question of Encodergüte. Splinting in The Picture of jumping disco ladies are already krass, and the artifact formation around the hems of the tree tops hats synonymous in itself.

Can you exclude that on the editing system things are installed, the encoder could significantly disrupt? So other decoder / encoder around?

And to answer the question - something I have neither Vegas nor Edius seen. But perhaps it is time with the magnifying glass to search for ...

One, however, agrees: native editing is really only that the transport streams natively in the NLE can load. That is not synonymous with smart rendering (which in the future HDV2 more and more likely to come NLEs).

Antwort von r.p. television:

Hi Wolfgang!

It is of course again mentioned that it is of course extreme examples.
Most are single frames, as if the video stream would collapse, because the 25MBit that must be met. But synonymous linear and a slight deterioration in Splinting pans and a lot of movement in the Picture to see.
My fear is that many of these errors (like me) than the much more circumscribed in HDV artifacts accept.

On the NLE was up to some postpro-plugins for image editing stage no additional encoder / decoder plug-in installed.
Have been described as synonymous to a second, jungfreulichen office PC (potent enough for testing) Premiere installed (without the filter, etc.). The same artifacts.
And a hardware conflict - that is now the firewire controller spins - I agree with synonymous, because in such an error would be no additional artifacts, but dropouts or curfew.

Vegas lights me as Sony's development (or I am mistaken) of course, because they've got the codecs so developed.
I really think that it is APP2 (at least in my version) by a quick shot marktstrategischen act to keep pace with other NLE to be able to. It is holding out or how linzenzrechtlichen always synonymous reasons there have been no better.

Antwort von r.p. television:

jungfreulich ... ... ouch, sorry


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