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What is "Raid" in the video editing?



Frage von Uwe:
November 2006

Hello,

Since I plan to have me next year, a quad-core anzulachen with 2-3 hard, I wonder whether such a Raid-system needs.

I know my hardware only moderately from things. One reads always different. Some say that you need in video editing - the others say that it is superfluous ... It is probably primarily Raid 0

I do not even know whether this additional hardware is now or whether the entire software is controlled.

Info + information desired ...



Antwort von Markus:

Hello Uwe,

Raid 0, you needed earlier than the hard disks are not yet fast enough for DV material with 3.5 MB / s to process. Today, however, (almost) any standard hard drive.

Furthermore, the vault is now synonymous large enough so that a stripe composite is no longer absolutely necessary, even if more extensive projects handled.



Antwort von Alpinist:

"Uwe" wrote:
whether such a Raid-system needs.

Nope.

If you want, there ne lot alternatives. The target of your RAID 0 only increases the data throughput. The data, however, is halved. You can find detailed instructions here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

Incidentally, my favorite RAID 5, RAID 0 +1 and RAID 10 - but not in the work computer but as a NAS in the home network system for the final and lasting data storage ;-)

Regards

--
http://www.alpinisten.info/
http://www.gipfelsammler.de/





Antwort von Uwe:

Thanks Mark, now that would be a clear statement. You do not, but now comes Apinist ...
"Mountaineer" wrote:

Incidentally, my favorite RAID 5, RAID 0 +1 and RAID 10 - but not in the work computer but as a NAS in the home network system for the final and lasting data storage ;-)


As for now - you do not need Raid 0, but it would be advisable => 5, 0 +1 + 10 in the Videoberabeitung ...?



Antwort von wolfgang:

Prefers brings a Raid system, then what if some one with the larger Intermediate Codec (Cineform, Canopus HQ) HDV material to cut. Then a Rais-Sytesm but because of the size of 3 to 4 times compared with DV-AVI or native HDV material, a real advantage.

And a Raid system will then what if you have more disk space at will - and in addition to data sets, such as a hard disk crash survive.

That is, at least for me the reasons, a Raid-5 system in the average PC to have.



Antwort von Markus:

"Uwe" wrote:
As for now - you do not need Raid 0, but it would be advisable => 5, 0 +1 + 10 in the Videoberabeitung ...?

"Mountaineer" Bernhard has you a link to Wikipedia that. Read the article then you times through and then decide if you have one of these systems need Raid or / and want to have. ;-)



Antwort von PowerMac:

No amateur needs something, because the speed of a single current sheet is sufficient. Different for uncompressed formats. They are only for professionals but encountered. And not even the need to: for example, DVCPRO50 with several tracks with notebook panels feasible.



Antwort von Alpinist:

"Uwe" wrote:
As for now - you do not need Raid 0, but it would be advisable => 5, 0 +1 + 10 in the Videoberabeitung ...?

You need it not for a normal DV editing.

"wolfgang" wrote:
And a Raid system will then what if you have more disk space to have

Not to be confused with hard savings ;-) You need more hard disks, but in a logical grouping appear as a single

"wolfgang" wrote:
and additional data sets, such as a hard disk crash survive.

And that is precisely the reason why no one should use RAID 0. RAID 0 for example, could be useful, however, if only temporarily, the data would be stored (eg, rendering information for each rendering will be created again). The storage of sensitive data on RAID 0 is negligent, because even if the composite consist of 200 plates, would be all the data (more or less) away, if only one fails.

Furthermore, I can not recommend RAID solution, based on a chip based motherboard. These have the disadvantage that when a manufacturer completely change the data by copying to a new storage media (eg, RAID system of the new manufacturer) must be transferred. With solutions such as external NAS (network storage) or eSATA (External SATA port), this risk is much lower, since there is only one manufacturer of each component subject (core system with motherboard and memory solution). The problem s.dieser recommendation, as always, are the costs ;-)

Regards

--
http://www.alpinisten.info/
http://www.gipfelsammler.de/



Antwort von Uwe:

"Mark" wrote:

"Mountaineer" Bernhard has you a link to Wikipedia that. Read the article then you times through and then decide if you have one of these systems need Raid or / and want to have. ;-)


You're good. When I read, I still do not understand whether it is for video editing with hard disks for example, 3 would be advisable ...

RAID 5 offers both increased data throughput when reading of data redundancy as synonymous with a relatively low cost and is thus the most popular RAID variant. In read-intensive environments, RAID 5 is not recommended because both sequential as synonymous with random write accesses of the throughput decreases significantly .

or

"A 10-RAID network is a RAID 0 across multiple RAID 1 are the properties of the two RAIDs combine security and increased Schreib-/Lesegeschwindigkeit."

Oh, and a RAID 10 needs at least 4 so hard ...

Oh man, I surmised the ... I'm quite "Fix + Foxi":). Ok synonymous Powermac says, you do not. Wolfgang provides HDV + Intermediates in an improvement ....



Antwort von Alpinist:

"Uwe" wrote:
Ok synonymous Powermac says, you do not. Wolfgang provides HDV + Intermediates in an improvement ....

Even for HDV (as it comes from the camera) you need not. He said uncompressed HDV ;-)

Hab grad noch was found suitable:
Quote:
RAID stands for Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disk. " Meanwhile degenerate it to a marketing hype which is why I write this text in order to warn the people, this hype is better not to succumb.
Because RAID is in 95% of cases does not make sense and bring more problems with that than it solves.

from: http://hydra.geht.net/tino/howto/raid/?a=source

Regards

--
http://www.alpinisten.info/
http://www.gipfelsammler.de/



Antwort von Uwe:

"Mountaineer" wrote:

Even for HDV (as it comes from the camera) you need not. He said uncompressed HDV ;-)


Yes, he meant but synonymous intermediates such as the CineformHD or CanopusHQ. But mountaineer, You seem so so'n right now in this particular direction to be ...

So, I want my course, a quad-core synonymous why buy so synonymous with intermediates to work. However, I obviously synonymous afraid if 1 disk fails, then all that does not work ...

What exactly would you raid for my case recommend? Whether it's then I suppose I still do not know, but I would at least sometimes a concrete clue ....

Have obviously been synonymous in "Ami forums a bit gewühlt. Even then, the opinions differ, even though many of the video professionals synonymous there feel that it is not braüchte ...

A little bit clearer to me through this thread in any case already;)



Antwort von Uwe:

"Mountaineer" wrote:

Hab grad noch was found suitable:
Quote:
RAID stands for Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disk. " Meanwhile degenerate it to a marketing hype which is why I write this text in order to warn the people, this hype is better not to succumb.
Because RAID is in 95% of cases does not make sense and bring more problems with that than it solves.

from: http://hydra.geht.net/tino/howto/raid/?a=source


Aaah, the addendum of you have overlap. So after the raid text is as good as dead ...



Antwort von Alpinist:

"Uwe" wrote:
What exactly would you raid for my case recommend? Whether it's then I suppose I still do not know, but I would at least sometimes a concrete clue ....

Probably none, but several hard disks:
- One for source material
- One for the temporary data
- A as the target plate

Since I use the format you have mentioned do not know, it's hard to say how much bandwidth you need. But I think that Serial ATA effectively usable with 150 MB / sec should be sufficient. Crucial are the capabilities of the hard (low latency and high data rates).

I personally use s.Arbeitsrechner no RAID. Only for the final data on the network - but not as a target medium as mentioned s.Anfang!

Regards

--
http://www.alpinisten.info/
http://www.gipfelsammler.de/



Antwort von Uwe:

"Mountaineer" wrote:
"Uwe" wrote:
What exactly would you raid for my case recommend? Whether it's then I suppose I still do not know, but I would at least sometimes a concrete clue ....

Probably none, but several hard disks:


That is a word. Thanks for the replies - especially a mountaineer, the final decision was for me. Raid is not for me .....



Antwort von Alpinist:

"Uwe" wrote:
Raid is not for me .....

Do not forget the backup ;-)

Regards

--
http://www.alpinisten.info/
http://www.gipfelsammler.de/



Antwort von prem:

"Mountaineer" wrote:

"wolfgang" wrote:
And a Raid system will then what if you have more disk space to have

Not to be confused with hard savings ;-) You need more hard disks, but in a logical grouping appear as a single


Eh clear backup space costs so synonymous.

And yes, I spoke of intermediates - which are just 3 to 4x as big as native HDV files. The data with the alternative is such a thing. On the other hand says that you will actually not make - because in these file sizes tend to be cumbersome. And woe betide if it smokes advancing one one disk among a critical project from.

So, in sum is about data and to speed - with a Raid 5 is not necessarily always massively faster, the system is perfectly synonymous with self-employed.

Uncompressed SD material, I can but some of my system to play smoothly. For HDV material, I have not yet tried, including synonymous. I will not process the original uncompressed material, an SDI card, I have not.

At least I did stop at that time synonymous own Raid Controller invested. I regret that to this day.



Antwort von Markus:

In my calculator run a Raid 0, was initially due to the small hard drive sizes and the limited data throughputs certainly was necessary. Meanwhile, the storage units all have been exchanged against larger, but the raid remained in place.

Since DV editing on my PC not too much space was initially interested me for a Raid-5, only because I need an extra plate would have been needed. My professional affairs for PC advised me of it, however, because the performance of the DV editing (capturing, etc.) would not ( Wikipedia : " In schreibintensiven Umgebungen ist RAID 5 nicht zu empfehlen, da sowohl bei sequenziellen als synonymous bei zufälligen Schreibzugriffen der Durchsatz deutlich abnimmt.").

Also lief es auf eine Backup-Lösung hinaus, die ich mir with einer externen Firewire-hard drive dazugestellt habe.

"An anonymous guest wrote:
Wikipedia : " In schreibintensiven Umgebungen ist RAID 5 nicht zu empfehlen, da sowohl bei sequenziellen als synonymous bei zufälligen Schreibzugriffen der Durchsatz deutlich abnimmt.").

Also lief es auf eine Backup-Lösung hinaus, die ich mir with einer externen Firewire-hard drive dazugestellt habe.

The data with the alternative is such a thing. On the other hand says that you will actually not make - because Wikipedia : " In schreibintensiven Umgebungen ist RAID 5 nicht zu empfehlen, da sowohl bei sequenziellen als synonymous bei zufälligen Schreibzugriffen der Durchsatz deutlich abnimmt.").

Also lief es auf eine Backup-Lösung hinaus, die ich mir with einer externen Firewire-hard drive dazugestellt habe.

in these file sizes tend to be cumbersome.
Wikipedia : " In schreibintensiven Umgebungen ist RAID 5 nicht zu empfehlen, da sowohl bei sequenziellen als synonymous bei zufälligen Schreibzugriffen der Durchsatz deutlich abnimmt.").

Also lief es auf eine Backup-Lösung hinaus, die ich mir with einer externen Firewire-hard drive dazugestellt habe.


It is true that we naturally think back to the needs and that it sometimes takes hours, if more projects with 100 or 200 GB would like to secure.

This is, however, that I backup a much better feel and not every day such amounts of data. Mostly it's only project files or zwischengerenderte steps that I need to copy. This is usually in a few minutes - even if it takes so long.

I also have to during the copying of data can not stand beside and watch. ;-)




Antwort von wolfgang:

It may be that the performance of the system in Raid5 intense strain decreases - but it is definitely much better than of a single SATA disk. Problems capturing you get from this title at least, none.
;)

And it has so constantly and always have the data, not only when it has secured straight times. On something I do not think about them.

In the course of Umspielzeiten SATA to SATA, you are too optimistic. Take time an extensive HDV Project from 5 or 6 tapes, rendered to an intermediate codec - and copy the backup to order. Even if you do not need to sit - the PC it's quite long blocked.



Antwort von PowerMac:

An average plate delivers 20-40 MB / s. The last six to ten times to DV capture.



Antwort von wolfgang:

Eh enough to capture. Whether it be DV-AVI, HDV natively, or in an Intermediate HDV codec captured.

But now working with an intermediate codec which is about 3.5x the DV -avi/HDV2 data corresponds. And now cut several times so that Picture-in-Picture Effects, where you at three or four intermediate files for editing simultaneously accessed. And to see, suddenly, with the data of a single plate well covered as closely, if the material is cut in a project on a single plate.

Whether and how often you need, anyway everyone know. But together with the already wide-called security issues has, at least in such applications Raid-5 system at the above-mentioned advantages. Because it simply is.



Antwort von Markus:

"wolfgang" wrote:
But together with the already wide-called security issues has, at least in such applications Raid-5 system at the above-mentioned advantages.

If it is time (ie the calculator is free), I will give it a try. :-)



Antwort von Gast1:

Adobe wrote in its system requirements for PP2: "Dedicated 7200-RPM hard drive for DV - and HDV editing; disk array with striping (RAID 0) for HD."
Canopus (Edius), Sony (Vegas) / Cineform (HD Connect), and Ulead (MSP) system call in its only a "quick" hard drive and apparently seen no need for Raid?

Talking Picture in Picture Effect and Raid: An old lady complained to the police about a neighbor's house in exhibitionists. The police immediately launched a 'Commando Raid "and moves with four officials from. The old lady, the police when they arrive directly in their - up to a small skylight windows otherwise - kitchen. On the surprised eyes of the police calls to the old lady: Yes woartens what then? You need to have on the table and his head stuck out of the skylight. And if they can properly track them through their binoculars on the other through the upper right pane, this outrageous, nackerten guy look ...



Antwort von Markus:

"Gast1" wrote:
... Requirements for PP2: "Dedicated 7200-RPM hard drive for DV - and HDV editing; hard array with striping (RAID 0) for HD."

That does not surprise me. DV / HDV are so synonymous lower data rate requirements s.die as a professional HD. For instance, you can with DVCProHD (100 Mbit / s) have a PiP Effect tinker and see what the hard drive makes when playing ... ;-)



Antwort von Gast1:

@ Markus

What do you mean with "Play"? From the timeline?



Antwort von Markus:

"Gast1" wrote:
What do you mean with "Play"? From the timeline?

Yes, I said that.



Antwort von wolfgang:

DVC PRO HD And although the disadvantage is the high data rate, and thus a requirement for the hard drive is, but the advantage that it is with its pure I-frame structure relatively low requirements s.den processor has.

Helps nix, you have to stop to consider what is on their system can process wants. Taking over unkomprmiertes SDI to HD, it will be probably the PC of the rod does not do more.



Antwort von IngoJ:

Hey

I'm new here in the forum and really just start with the topic of video editing. But I am otherwise a violent computer freak.

So - generally requires no Raid. But it would speed up disk access, because - when properly Raid choice - the read and write requests in parallel. Generally, for a data security is always a RAID recommended. The best way is certainly a Raid 5 with 4 identical hard disks. Synonymous is important to choose the correct controller. Onboard Raidcontroller support only RAID 0, 1 or 0 / 1. It must not necessarily synonymous a SATA controller. An IDE makes synonymous good services - and what there is a SD-RAM onboard memory, which serves as a cache. This speeds up the HD access something again.
Obviously you can soclh Raid-5 system will be synonymous NAS setup. Cost of approximately 5-600, - Euro at 4 x 300 GB HD's.

Greeting



Antwort von wolfgang:

So - generally requires no Raid.

So in general so you can not make a statement. What if the required data rate is higher than individual plates can be?



Antwort von Josefa:

Then it is no longer in general, but specifically.



Antwort von Valentino:

Hi

somehow what is so funny for opinions on a RAID0 system.
Is the RAID0 on a "real" RAID, because no missing data somewhere?
I myself have in the business s.Schnittplatz a SCSI RAID (03) and have tried of the XL-H1 unkompimiertes 4:2:2 HD recording. After about three video tracks and one Effect is synonymous to the MacPro came stutter.
On the subject of DVC PRO HD, you can even with a nice cut Raptor. Even with three tracks running like greased.
So my recommendation a 75GB Raptor as Systempaltte and the 150GB as Videopaltte. Who still takes place may indeed still a 750GB disk to the archive to create.



Antwort von Markus:

"Valentino" wrote:
Is the RAID0 on a "real" RAID, because no missing data somewhere?

In




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