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Wie synchronisiert man Video- und Audiogeräte?

How to sync video - and audio devices?



Frage von M-Kult:
Juli 2008

Hello Video municipality

because I'm with the topic of audio sync issues, I wonder how the professionals among amateurs video - and audio devices synchronized.

When I miss the Consumercams connections such as S / PDIF, AES / EBU or ADAT. That means it will probably only if using sync Time code (SMPTE) is possible? If the procedure used most consumer cams (VITC, LTC, garkeins)?

Would like my Lappy with appropriate software, which offers everything s.Synchromöglichkeiten than HD-recorder, because the quality of the audio material is crucial and I convert my interface better than the BA Cam. At the point of course I do not know how a cam is working if video and audio on separate converter to run, or a high-quality A / D converter both processes. So good I can be happy and completely wrong.

I hope I'm not forced a good line level signal into the camera to eat, so I do not run the risk s.Ende asynchronous recordings to have. Special is a possibility (which I do not see) audio and video devices to be synchronized.

Hope you can follow me and even help. :)

Regards
M-cult



Antwort von WWJD:

Simple: With one stone .....
Do I still like that.

Gruss
Jack



Antwort von M-Kult:

And if you 45min concert s.einem piece aufnimmst?
At the beginning you are then synchronously, but after 40min could have a different looking.





Antwort von robbie:

I do not know what you mean Cam Cosumer understand ...

Maybe you should, if you the synchronicity is so important, a professional camera with TC in / out, rent, or possibly even with AES / EBU in. Then actually solved all your problems ...



Antwort von M-Kult:

Then I would have but the problem that I can not afford. :)

Consumer cams to 5000 ¬ for example, which here often and like to be mentioned. (HX A1, EX1, as they all say)



Antwort von robbie:

"robbie" wrote:
rent




Antwort von M-Kult:

I've already read your first sentence and understood.

If it is not possible with the target of my camera, you can feel free to say in one sentence. Then I know everything I wanted to know.



Antwort von robbie:

Consumer cams usually go to 1500/2000 euro, then begins the prosumer range. Therefore, perhaps a bit confusing.

A camera with all the desired properties to rent costs about 400 euro s.tag. Since you're cheaper than a cheap consumer / prosumer buy.

I thought since you with words such as VITC and LTC handle that you then garnichterst with such cameras submit want. Subsequently read a misunderstanding of my page;)

In short, go with the cheap cameras do not only with those with TC-in.



Antwort von derpianoman:

"M-cult" wrote:
And if you 45min concert s.einem piece aufnimmst?
At the beginning you are then synchronously, but after 40min could have a different looking.


Two different audio systems (DAT and ADAT) I actually times as long to run in parallel - and no shift is detected. So I suspect that today's Cameras synonymous very time stable "run. It goes without "flip", ie material found in the Audi is always incisive enough points to synchronize. And you will always be for each song (with enough pre-and follow-up) ready to be behind the best rauszusuchen and a beautiful concert "to tinker" ;-) (in applause applause fade) So yes be only about 5 min . everything run synchronously.

No, this is not the variant according BOOK, with expensive equipment - but it works well enough. ;-)



Antwort von david2:

Quote:
...
No, this is not the variant according BOOK, with expensive equipment - but it works well enough. ;-)

Exactly. I do always as synonymous and am satisfied. Ie I assume via camera's built-in microphone and an alert to synchronize via Waveformdarstellung. The problem is when these two apart is running (which after 40 minutes "guarantee" will happen) you need to work with time time - unfortunately, it deteriorates the sound but mostly clear (especially in music).
Since the question is, what then Aufzeichnungsart but the better quality is achieved?



Antwort von M-Kult:

Hachja, I'm not so versed with all the cameras and expressions, sorry for the confusion, then I probably prosumer cams.

Okay, so what I am presenting does not work like that, but the tip of the piano man will probably be the only 'good possibility that the opposite effect. 100% co-using equipment, there is unfortunately not. Time time does not really matter, when as a very last instance.

Since I do not have camera and in the coming period will synonymous not buy, borrow only eh comes into question, but 400 ¬ s.Tag is already fierce. The Cam I ausleihe costs a 20tel per day. :)
Da scheiß * cough * I would prefer to initially 45min synchronism.

To synchronize the video - and audio track in the post, there are plenty of tricks, such as, for example s.Schlagzeuger orientation. If I only have to align the non-existent. :)

But I think synonymous, after 5min you should hardly garnicht to realize I really need the breaks between songs to use that I am after 45min still "on-time" bin.

Thank you first for the tips and answers:)

Regards
M-cult

PS misunderstandings on the Internet are not uncommon. ;)



Antwort von Meggs:

"david2" wrote:
The problem is when these two apart is running (which after 40 minutes "guarantee" will happen) you need to work with time time - unfortunately, it deteriorates the sound but mostly clear (especially in music).
Since the question is, what then Aufzeichnungsart but the better quality is achieved?


I have experienced that several camcorders with each other synchronously remain synonymous after 1 hour. Camcorder and sound card or other digital recording device are always after a certain time asynchronously.
It is therefore not s.Consumer camcorder.
On my FireWire interface are approximately 8 video frames per hour. I do this time-the audio track in Premiere, and has until now never been an audible loss of quality can be observed.



Antwort von Schleichmichel:

The length of the audio file can be virtually lossless stretched as long as you really only slows down the speed or increase - depending on the case. Only if you want to maintain the pitch, there is really schäbbige artifacts.



Antwort von kuhea:

"Megger" wrote:

...
It is therefore not s.Consumer camcorder.
On my FireWire interface are approximately 8 video frames per hour. I do this time-the audio track in Premiere, and has until now never been an audible loss of quality can be observed.


Hello,

and what would be if the sound is original and differences in the picture here and there times 1 Picture rausscheidet doubled or one, depending on the. That no one remembers. And much more likely to be no deviation. And he still sounds completely untouched.

Greeting kuhea



Antwort von Meggs:

"kuhea" wrote:

and what would be if the sound is original and differences in the picture here and there times 1 Picture rausscheidet doubled or one, depending on the. That no one remembers. And much more likely to be no deviation. And he still sounds completely untouched.


Could be envisaged. Is effort. Furthermore, the batch synchronization so - if you look ganau you noticed 1 frame difference in the lip. I would perhaps still do if it actually would Tonverbesserung ne audible. But as I said, in my experience makes the premiere stretching such small deviations from perfect.



Antwort von Schleichmichel:

Again: You can Tonspuren "Stretch", without affecting the pitch, and you can soundtracks in their speed, with the pitch corresponding increase or lower is being played.

In the former case is the soundtrack in the event of a slowdown are stretched and the pitch gepitcht the extent that they are again as high as before. An absolute no-go! That is ALWAYS to be heard. Depending on the program and procedures more or less unattractive.

A simple change of speed will have no losses, but just the effect of pitch change. Definitely not heard when it comes to material goes, which at 40 minutes 8 seconds just to be extended or shortened.



Antwort von M-Kult:

Super class, thank you for your experiences!

Since we introduced a couple of options to search on.
If I get as far as times, I will add my experience yet.

Thanks again, really helped.

M-cult



Antwort von Meggs:

"Surreptitious Michel" wrote:
Definitely not heard when it comes to material goes, which at 40 minutes 8 seconds just to be extended or shortened.


In my case, a total of 8 frames, ie 1 / 3 second on 60 minutes.



Antwort von B.DeKid:

Gude M-cult

Rented a Canon XLh1 has the TC In / Out (and certainly not cost 400 euros / day)

With Tascam DAT recorder, for example about something as an alternative to the Lap perhaps consider.

MfG
B. DeKid



Antwort von MK:

"Surreptitious Michel" wrote:
Depending on the program and procedures more or less unattractive.


We have been changes in standard time-to classical music recordings used (inverse Telecining & PAL Speedup) which especially in the strings very prone to artifacts, since you have heard absolutely nothing that has been processed ... there is so much garbage s.Markt where you can hear it, but there is very good software synonymous in this area.



Antwort von kuhea:

"kuhea" wrote:


Could be envisaged. Is effort. Furthermore, the batch synchronization so - if you look ganau you noticed 1 frame difference in the lip. I would perhaps still do if it actually would Tonverbesserung ne audible. But as I said, in my experience makes the premiere stretching such small deviations from perfect.


Hello,

So, from the entire movie times 10 individual images rauszuklicken, I would not be seen as an expense.

1 Picture would be 1 / 25 second. Since, the sound is just 13 meters back. Will hot, if you 13 meters away from the music listening, do you think this is 1 / 25 sec sofgar difference in the "real life". With a large orchestra are still significantly greater distance. I never was as disturbing (or unsynkrones) noticed.

Maybe someone here knows, this man s.wann time differences ever heard? Had interesting times.

Greeting Kuhea



Antwort von M-Kult:

Is of person to person varies, but usually 4-12ms.

Some think they could have a latency of 3ms exercise, others note no difference in 12ms.

@ Be - my wish for all interface channels and do not necessarily use the "Live Mix" record. But thank you for the tip with the Canon.



Antwort von Schleichmichel:

It is also synonymous worse when the sound precedes the picture. Because you do not know. The fact that the sound comes later, is normal for us and we use the perception of synonymous distances (synonymous if we already recognize as synonymous).



Antwort von Meggs:

"kuhea" wrote:

So, from the entire movie times 10 individual images rauszuklicken, I would not be seen as an expense.


Come to the workflow. For me, it is usually 3 or 4 Kamereas (video tracks) - that is already 40 Einzeilbilder. Perhaps, the purely synonymous, so double. A doubling in a motion picture you can see.
Why bother, when as here synonymous of other already confirmed, the audio track without losing quality stretching it?



Antwort von B.DeKid:

"Megger" wrote:
...... Why the effort .......


M cult .... if an interface with TC is out?

Mics s.das Interface
Tc out of the interface s.TC In Cam
Recording s.Lap start
Cam starts with auto

On average, TC progi both sources (shots) may adjust (in the msec range?)

Denke M cult wants the reality, right?

MfG
B. DeKid



Antwort von Meggs:

"B. DeKid" wrote:
"Megger" wrote:
...... Why the effort .......


M cult .... if an interface with TC is out?

Mics s.das Interface
Tc out of the interface s.TC In Cam


M cult wrote:
Quote:
Since I do not have camera and in the coming period will synonymous not buy, borrow only eh comes into question, but 400 ¬ s.Tag is already fierce. The Cam I ausleihe costs a 20tel per day. :)
Da scheiß * cough * I would prefer to initially 45min synchronism.




Antwort von M-Kult:

Well hey, you do not argue because of me. : P

How and exactly what I do to be seen. Basically, it just went to the options you have. What solution you have claimed for themselves, but ultimately is no preference as long you do it well!

I am now aufjedenfall ne corner smarter, and that was me, actually. :)

The basic idea was really like in the title is synonymous, audio - and video devices to synchronize. Via Snychro digital or analog interface.



Antwort von derpianoman:

"M-cult" wrote:
... Okay, so what I am presenting does not work like that, but the tip of the piano man will probably be the only 'good possibility that the opposite effect. 100% co-using equipment, there is unfortunately not. Time time does not really matter, when as the final arbiter of all ...


Hi!
I suspect that it is not synonymous "leg break" is only once each title individually to synchronize and then to create. Because presumably anyway, not everything is played in concert, and later on the DVD should be. That means the guys are the best / most successful title - and which is then anyway into a new order to bring! And perhaps it will then have a brief demo version with only 3-4 songs give? Or you take in half a year on concert nights and suddenly sollst old with the best of the best new tracks combine ... ...

So: Conclusion synonymous in my practice: The title INDIVIDUALLY with announcement (times may be used, sometimes not!) Until applause (for the super crossfading to any other title "exempt".
And then an "an entirely new concert tinker". 15 min. 30 min? almost all the tracks? And as a documentary for the tape prior to selecting these "building blocks" completely burn to DVD - without transitions! ...
LG Klaus



Antwort von robbie:

"B. DeKid" wrote:

Recording s.Lap start
Cam starts with auto


Reverie. The TC-Sync lets the camera never mitstarten life. The SMTPE-TC is also an audio-compatible signal that with any audio device that can be. Theoretically, if you have enough tracks, but not TC-in you can have the synonymous to one of the superfluous tracks.




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